<Begasus[m]>
nice! wouldn't make sense I think if you still needed to use the mouse for that
<Habbie>
well, still better than "and it's gone" ;)
<Habbie>
but, i guess this should become a setting onw
<Habbie>
*now
* Habbie
adds it to the list
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<Begasus[m]>
habbie: it shows you've been hanging around with OscarL :P
<Begasus[m]>
biab
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<Begasus[m]>
re
<Habbie>
Begasus[m], lol, what shows that?
<Begasus[m]>
typo's :)
<Habbie>
oh ;)
<Habbie>
that's just because i'm sitting awkwardly between two keyboards
<Begasus[m]>
know the feeling, only at one device atm, but sometimes got 3 running :)
<Habbie>
there are 3 laptops on this desk
<Begasus[m]>
not enough room for that on my desk, need place for coffee mug, ashtray ... :)
<Habbie>
hehe
<Habbie>
i got this desk from an actual office, it's nice and big
<Begasus[m]>
this desk was from my oldest brother who died almost 30 years ago, still in good use to his memory
<Habbie>
<3
<Begasus[m]>
I guess I got into computers because of him, he was the real developer :)
<Habbie>
ah nice
<Habbie>
o_O makebootable specifically does not work on Haiku
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<Habbie>
#ifdef HAIKU_TARGET_PLATFORM_HAIKU .. #fprintf(stderr, "Error: Block devices not supported on this platform"
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<Habbie>
(on block devices)
<Begasus[m]>
bootmanager helps out if it doesn't work out of the box mostly
<Begasus[m]>
and helps out when having multiple install too :)
<Habbie>
bootmanager says my disk has "Incompatible format!"
<Habbie>
but yes, bootmanager would be nice, because if i had it, i wouldn't need makebootable
<Begasus[m]>
that can happen too, initialized as intel?
<Habbie>
gpt
<Begasus[m]>
nephele_mobile: should be a better guide there :) or PulkoMandy :)
<Habbie>
ok, did it with DiskProbe
<Habbie>
also found out that there's a "could not load microcode" message after the confusing non-packaged line i saw earlier, but only if there's room on the screen
<Begasus[m]>
6.14.0 done, 197 packages in 1.5hr :)
<Habbie>
wow
<Begasus[m]>
some are obsolete/not required, but still a full set for the frameworks
<Begasus[m]>
luckally the Qt frameworks isn't that big, but a few there can be nasty in building :)
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<OscarL>
waddlesplash: seems oftc.irclog.withequark.org now redirects to oftc.catirclogs.org. time to update the channel banner? (or whatever it is called :-D)
<nephele>
Made a topic on the forum, maybe I can get some input into *why* it works the way it works
<nephele>
Though maybe it should just be improved in parts, or switched out
<nephele>
(first thing is to remove the twitcher from it, and use the *other* implementation we have in-tree that doesn't run in the deskbar team...)
<x512[m]>
Deskbar is based on original BeOS R5 code, so it is ready and right by definition.
<nephele>
If your definition is "BeOS compatible", yes. But that isn't my goal primarily.
<OscarL>
Tracker is original BeOS code too, and I still would love to have a tree-view in it.
<x512[m]>
Haiku R1 official goal is BeOS R5 compatibility.
<OscarL>
that doesn't means carbon-copy. otherwise... we're already way off.
<nephele>
Not really, BeOS compatibility is one requirement, but not a goal
<x512[m]>
Deskbar is fine except bug fixing.
<nephele>
"Haiku is an open-source operating system that specifically targets personal computing. Inspired by the BeOS, Haiku is fast, simple to use, easy to learn and yet very powerful."
<nephele>
especially the simple to use part. Parts that are illogical should be fixable, even if BeOS did it differently :)
<x512[m]>
Making changes to BeOS is R2+ goal.
<nephele>
Nah
<nephele>
Binary compat is one thing, but the rest. No not so much
<x512[m]>
"Illogical UI" is highly subjective.
<nephele>
Sure. That's why this is discussed.
<Habbie>
'illogical' is objective. it's just the wrong word here ;)
<x512[m]>
For example I see your color theme highly illogical and eye hurting.
<nephele>
What color theme?
<x512[m]>
Your Haiku screenshots with custom pink color theme.
<nephele>
I don't care. I change my colors often, and i don't care if other people use different colors either
<x512[m]>
Yes, it is fine because it is configurable.
<nephele>
Also, way to derail the argument :P
<nephele>
alwasys nice to get in a few personal insults based on preferences in there, really makes for a good discussion culture
<x512[m]>
But Deskbar changes are more invasive than color theme.
<x512[m]>
I just say that your claim to Deskbar are actually your preferences, not objective problem.
<nephele>
Not more invasive. No. And besides, I asked specific questions on the forum, and here you are already crusading against someone critizising deskbar when you don't even know whar the critizism is
<x512[m]>
The same as color theme.
<OscarL>
well, I do agree that "illogical" was the wrong word choise. And no one has given personal insults. Accusing others of insulting you when no one did, also not constructive to the discussion.
<x512[m]>
> first thing is to remove the twitcher from it, and use the *other* implementation we have in-tree that doesn't run in the deskbar team
<nephele>
It's not "personal preferences", it's UI flows that have a justification, and that justification is what I would like to understand. If the justification is "this is just the way it was", and it does not match the rest of the system, there should be an option to make it match
<x512[m]>
I see no problem in Twitcher in Deskbar.
<nephele>
twitcher beeing in the same team as deskbar is a design flaw
<nephele>
It should always be available, even if deskbar crashes
<OscarL>
(man, I type too slow... /me goes to make some coffee)
<x512[m]>
Deskbar auto restart on crash, so no problem.
<nephele>
That's nonsense
<x512[m]>
If Deskbar fails to start, you are already doomed. It is critical bug that is needed to be fixed.
<x512[m]>
No need to make this fault situation more convenient.
<nephele>
Same argument can be made for every normal system component, doesn't mean they should all be in the same team. I think you misunderstood the fundamental Idea of seperating these things in the first place
<nephele>
Making the system more reliable is simply not a bad thing
<x512[m]>
Twitcher conceptually do the same thing as Deskbar: switching teams and windows.
<x512[m]>
So it is naturally the same application.
<nephele>
No
<x512[m]>
Anyway BeOS design is right by definition. No need to disscuss.
<nephele>
It simply isn't
<nephele>
If you want exactly BeOS, then use Exactly BeOS
<nephele>
and delete all the changes made to Deskbar in Haiku :)
<x512[m]>
BeOS do not run on modern hardware, closed source and abandoned.
<x512[m]>
Current Haiku Deskbar is still look like and work almost exactly the same as in BeOS.
<x512[m]>
And BeBook is holy book :)
<Habbie>
have any Electron apps been ported to Haiku?
<x512[m]>
If there will be no clear goal, development will turn into chaos. Especially in UI because there are a lot of mutually exclusive opinions how UI should be. This is why a lot Linux DEs and WMs are made.
<x512[m]>
Habbie: Electron is not yet ported.
<Habbie>
x512[m], ack
<nephele>
Habbie: No, electron does not run. Technically qtwebengine does run, but chromium as such doesn't
<Habbie>
ok
<nephele>
Habbie: maybe this can be ported for our webkit2 https://tauri.app/
<nephele>
x512[m]: doesn't really matter, I'm not going to remove stuff because it isn't in BeOS, that is just a ridicilous notion
<Habbie>
nephele, that's an electron alternative? i had not heard of it
<x512[m]>
It was demonstrated that VSCodium can be ported to Haiku WebKit and run in standalone window.
<nephele>
yes, but it uses the native runtime
<Habbie>
right
<Habbie>
but will that help us port electron apps?
<nephele>
No
<Habbie>
ok. just a bunch of other apps :)
<nephele>
electron is somewhat insane, but apps that work on electron can potentially be ported to something like tauri
<Habbie>
right
* Habbie
tries Waterfox
<Habbie>
i just found my notes from a week with Haiku a year ago. Many things I've discovered this week are also in those notes :D
<Habbie>
the mouse pointer is super blinky over Waterfox
<scanty>
Habbie: all the firefox ports are like that on haiku
<Habbie>
ok
<scanty>
i think it's because lack of hard cursor
<scanty>
but don't quote me on that ^_^
<Habbie>
then the only thing that's interesting about waterfox is that it can play youtube videos. it's not very good at it on this system though ;)
<Begasus>
it's a feature, not a bug :P
<Begasus>
Habbie, try qmplay2
<Begasus>
less resource hungry then those browsers
<Habbie>
hmm. another hang, after 7 icons. this sometimes happens on the third or fourth boot since poweron
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<OscarL>
Habbie: there's a "RunWith" extension for firefox and friends. Kinda fugly to properly setup, but then you can, for example, just right click a video, have it downloaded via yt-dlp, and played with whatever player you please. (I use YT exclusibly in that way on Win10 now :-D)
<Habbie>
nice
<Habbie>
on linux i have 'ff2mpv' for that, works very well
<OscarL>
I like it this way because I can force it to download the smaller audio track... no point in doing "high quality" audio when I'm downloading 144p files to watch/listen on a cellphone when I go for a walk :-D
<nephele>
Habbie: I had a custom xdg-open for that on my linux/freebsd
<nephele>
with caching
<Habbie>
nephele, oh nice
<Habbie>
OscarL, hah
<nephele>
I still have it, but i don't maintain it
<OscarL>
(I also now basically pay internet per MB, so.... everthing counts :-D)
<nephele>
The code is not in there for caching, but basically if it matches for a youtube url download it to ~/yourcache/<youtubeID>, then you can check each time if the file already exists and play it with mpv
<OscarL>
not as efficient, but at least yt-dlp will not download the video again if it finds it already exists (it will however download the url page and stuff before giving up).
<nephele>
oh, neat
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<x512[m]>
About cursor: BeOS also have a problem with flickering cursor, but a bit different. Cursor itself flickers instead of contents under cursor.
<scanty>
cursor also leaves a trail in BDirectWindow
<x512[m]>
That is unavoidable if no hardware cursor.
<scanty>
right
<x512[m]>
Yet another idea how to fix flickering contents under cursor without extra screen-sized buffers. Make back buffer for cursor. When displaying contents on screen, exclude cursor when copying back buffer to front buffer and then copy cursor separately.
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<HaikuUser>
what are y'all going to do when windows 10 loses its support in october?
<scanty>
nothing.
<HaikuUser>
im gonna back up all my important files and switch to using haiku on my main laptop
<HaikuUser>
(i can use boxed wine to play all my windows games and stuff)
<erysdren>
best of luck
<HaikuUser>
thx
<scanty>
i keep a windows 7 install on this machine "just in case"
<scanty>
haven't had to use it for years.
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<OscarL>
I ran Win98 till 2012, WinXP till 2018, basically skipped 7 and started using 10 in late-2019/early-2020 (always with some multiboot setup along with linux/beos/haiku). Some people act like if Win10 will suddenly stop working in October.
<erysdren>
fear mongering
<erysdren>
i'm impressed by using Win98 until 2012 though
<erysdren>
my wife used Windows 7 until 2022
<erysdren>
which, actually now that i think about it, is a similar length of time
<OscarL>
erysdren: it was on an Athlon Thunderbird at 900 MHz, with only 256 MB of RAM, and only a crappy iGPU (SiS730). The few games I could run there... worked better in Win98 :-D.
<OscarL>
only in 2012 I got a second-hand Athlon II X2 with 2 GB of RAM... quite the jump! (still using that motherboard, right now).
<erysdren>
i see i see
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<Begasus[m]>
I can still use Win11 on this one :)
<Begasus[m]>
unless I nuke it at one point
<Habbie>
hrev58862 (latest) boots on my chromebook with just a two character patch. needs more for good graphics though :)
<Habbie>
waddlesplash, i said earlier that 58850 (auto zero bios_regs) made things worse and caused reboots. 58862 does not do that (and i don't know why) and boots as long as i, still, disable that one set_text_mode call
<Habbie>
waddlesplash, so as far as i'm concerned 58850 can stay in
<Habbie>
i found your map by accident, i was wondering about putting my haiku 'fork' (just 3 extra commits) on codeberg and wondered if anything was on there already
<nipos>
There's a good number of Haiku stuff on Codeberg already :)
<BrunoSpr>
Begasus... There is Solarus 2.0 out for a while, we still use 1.6... Begasus do you have time to update this nice games?
<Habbie>
nipos, indeed
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<Habbie>
oh i was just going to ask bruno something
<OscarL>
Habbie: I was wondering why you had issues with the power key... the linked .png cleared that up :-)
<Habbie>
OscarL, yes!
<Habbie>
i once had a BBC home computer, a Micro I think? it had Reset where my PCs had backspace
<Habbie>
that was way worse
<Habbie>
hmm brightness setting does nothing (Screen)
<OscarL>
bet that keyboard was designed by either: a) a person that never actually used the computer. or b) some hardware or kernel engineer that reseted way too often :-)
<Habbie>
oh, no
<Habbie>
on chromeos this keyboard is perfect
<OscarL>
(I meant, in jest, the BBC one)
<Habbie>
oh oops
<Habbie>
yeah
<Habbie>
in that case, yes.
<OscarL>
for the brigthness keys... do you have actual working brightness control in the Screen preflet?
<Habbie>
sorry. my complaint was strictly about the preflet
<Habbie>
i do not expect the keys to work
<Habbie>
that would be quite magical if they did
<OscarL>
depends on the keyboard. Some hardware require a special driver, other use some ACPI event (not sure if Haiku handles all cases or if at all :-D).
<Habbie>
haiku just sees f6/f7 for those keys :)
<Habbie>
but yes, in other laptops, might be different
<OscarL>
some you just need to "remap/hook up" via the Shortcuts preflet.
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<Habbie>
yeah, i could, but then apps that want me to push F-keys will be unhappy
<Habbie>
hence my earlier question about "actually unused keys"
<OscarL>
In linux there's an acpi_listen program that I rememer using to check things up. In Haiku.... there's the acpi_tools package, IIRC, but it doesn't has the exact same program, I think.
<Habbie>
i don't expect any key except power to end up in acpi here
<Habbie>
but i have no great arguments for why that is true
<HaikuUser>
(im gonna get so much hate for this) why is boxedwine/wine in general a thing in haiku? if you want to run windows apps, either use a virtual machine or use windows
<HaikuUser>
i mean im still gonna use it
<erysdren>
?
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<erysdren>
lol
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<Habbie>
welcome back
<HaikuUser>
hi
<HaikuUser>
is there a way to remove the installer program? i dont need it now and its taking up a slot in my applications list
<Habbie>
and you need that space for your windows vm
<Habbie>
that reminds me, i asked before but got no response, anybody know why i don't see Screenshot in apps?
<Habbie>
let me check that page first to see if it happens to explain it
<Habbie>
oh it actually hides packages from the system entirely
<OscarL>
I've read that the rationale is... its current functionality makes it kinda usless unless you just want to take a screenshot, and in that case... you just press the print screen key, or call screenshot.
<Habbie>
right
<OscarL>
s/useless/pointless/... as it doesn't has much UI otherwise.
<Habbie>
yes, this makes sense to me
<Habbie>
.. if i had a prtsc button :D
<Habbie>
do you know where this decision to not show it is 'encoded'? like, is it in a file somewhere?
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<OscarL>
it just laks a deskbar link, I think. let me boot.
<OscarL>
*lacks
<Habbie>
ah. so blacklisting, which i knew could be done for drivers, but never tried, is a way more generic concept
<OscarL>
"HaikuUser" could have perused that last link. Oh well.
<Habbie>
yes
* OscarL
tries to imagine in what situation running a full WinXP VM would be "better" than just using Wine to run some of his apps made in Delphi (early 2000s).
<Habbie>
yeah
<Habbie>
i would not spend too many brain cycles on it
<Habbie>
it's not so much that the question generates hate
<Habbie>
just confusion about the silliness of the question
<Habbie>
ok, hrev58862+3+dirty reporting for duty with native graphics, a non-crashing loader, and a confirmation dialog on the power button
<Habbie>
my patchset is now as small as it can be
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<Habbie>
hmm now i can't get into boot loader debugging
<Habbie>
my patchset is too small :D
<OscarL>
heh
<OscarL>
if you don't have functioning brightness... you may have luck by "fine-tunning" what you return in detect_intel_pch(). The first patch from TmTFx for adding support for GeminiLake also didn't had brightness.
<Habbie>
couple of extra pixels top left of the icon row
* OscarL
"discovers" that INSTALL_DIR works on makefile_engine based Makefiles.
<OscarL>
The Makefile template file should mentionin that variable, otherwise folks like me won't know it exists :-)
<OscarL>
same as with HaikuPorts.conf options... discovered that a "unified 32/64 bits, workdirs on RAMFS" setup was possible, only after reading the source code :-D
<OscarL>
makefile-engine recides in Haiku's repo... should prolly just send a patch for it.
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<Habbie>
waddlesplash, do i understand correctly that (1) video_text_console is not normally used on ia32 (2) just adding it to the BootMergeObject causes it to be built for the already-present bios_ia32 framebuffer?
<waddlesplash>
Habbie: it has to be activated also, which is what my patch does
<Habbie>
yes i saw that
<waddlesplash>
yes, it's not normally built or used, the BIOS text console is used
<Habbie>
ok
<Habbie>
i am only now realising the amazingly accurate work in that patch based on my limited reporting :)
<waddlesplash>
well I'd worked on the video_text_console before
<waddlesplash>
in fact I wrote it, based on an earlier idea by jessicah
<Habbie>
sure, but when i went 'ax=3 reboots' you went 'oh lets framebuffer that text for you'
<waddlesplash>
well it was the obvious solution :P
<Habbie>
related, not sure you saw my earlier note, but current master boots fine with just set_text_mode patched out - but holding shift is a hang (not a reboot, i'm not sure why)
<Habbie>
probably also true for earlier hrevs, but between your patch and all the things i tried the picture got a bit muddy
<Habbie>
i'm (again) wondering if i can pass flags from grub to stage1 so that the changes i need can be present but entirely opt-in
<Habbie>
waddlesplash, re obvious - yes, with your knowledge :)
<waddlesplash>
yeah I saw your messages
<Habbie>
ok good
<Habbie>
ohh. after ax=3, i bet the non-video console writes straight to b800?
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<Habbie>
yes
<nephele>
Habbie: yes old ticket, but it is likely not too hard a task
<Habbie>
nephele, right
<nephele>
waddlesplash: do have a debug mode for the 32bit efi loader, to see if it loads at all?
<nephele>
didn't have much luck booting Haiku on my x86 tablet
<waddlesplash>
what do you mean, "debug mode"?
<waddlesplash>
it writes to serial out
<Habbie>
nephele might actually be interested in the exact patch we are talking about
<nephele>
one that always opens the menu, traces etc...
<waddlesplash>
the EFI loader needs a somewhat different patch
<Habbie>
ah, ok. the patch did mention efi in one or two spots
<nephele>
Not sure if this tablet has a serial anywhere i can check
<waddlesplash>
anyway no, but you can try it
<waddlesplash>
making the few edits necessary shouldn't be hard
<waddlesplash>
anyway, g2g
<Habbie>
cya waddlesplash
<nephele>
Habbie: maybe we should add a stale bot to the bug tracker
<nephele>
it would wreck havok :D
<Habbie>
i hate stale botw
<Habbie>
bots
<Habbie>
i see the problem of 'ticket is 10 years old, maybe it has been fixed'
<Habbie>
and it would be good if users could (without spamming comments!) report that they still notice a bug
<Habbie>
but stale bots tend to close tons of legit issues
<Habbie>
i also recognise that users, even when they have a way to say 'still true', will not
<Habbie>
but from what i've seen with stale bots, they are the wrong side of a balance
<nephele>
Hmm, the way we handle this seems better. Dev just asks "still happens?" after hrevs that changed it, and close it then after not getting a response or getting a negative one
<Habbie>
that is not bad
<Habbie>
but sometimes the original user is long gone
<Habbie>
and a newer also affected user is not subscribed to the ticket
<Habbie>
there are no easy right answers here, to be clear
<Habbie>
but i've had too many fights with stale bots
<nephele>
sure, but here we can just open a new one, or reopen the odd one
<Habbie>
those details matter :)
<nephele>
i'd argue that bugs that nobody notices are maybe not that sad when lost
<Habbie>
well, yes
<Habbie>
but case in point
<Habbie>
i noticed the png transparency thing
<Habbie>
but me noticing was not reflected on the bug (until i posted a comment with your workaround today)
<Habbie>
that covers 'users can tell us it still happens' except i missed it; it might not tell you/us when they still noticed it
<nephele>
if it's stll open it still ocurs most likely
<Habbie>
oh right
<Habbie>
upvotes *plus* stale bot
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<amblik[m]>
do Haiku browsers set the origin/referrer attributes like some mainstream browsers used to? or even some other ones?
<amblik[m]>
for downloads that is
<Habbie>
definitely better than stale bot without upvotes
<Habbie>
assuming here that upvotes delay the stale bot
<nephele>
Dunno, does webkit do that? hmm. We do use the curl backend now amblik[m]
<nephele>
Habbie: the ticket list shows priority nicely though :D #1 git is slow #2 multiple monitors would be cool
<OscarL>
IIRC, Net+ did saved that info as attributes.
<amblik[m]>
nephele: curl does have a feature like that at least on the cli, but webkit (or anything else) probably not anymore
<Habbie>
nephele, 'rotation support' seems secondary to 'multiple monitors', but, i get it now
<OscarL>
in 2000 I thought... wow, that's nice.
<nephele>
amblik[m]: i'm confused, is this required by the spec or not? i.e is this a bug if we don't do that?
<Habbie>
OscarL, i am not sure that that is what amblik[m] means
<nephele>
there, voted up the multiple displays ;)
<Habbie>
oh that's the third, right
<Habbie>
i literally only looked at the first two
<OscarL>
Habbie: ah, ok. wouldn't be the first (and far from the last) time I get confused :-)
<Habbie>
i ran into the eight one a few times this week (packagefs activation with identical names)
<amblik[m]>
Habbie: I do think OscarL got what I meant... just that information being set as attributes for the downloaded files... so yeah not anything required and in fact not even done anymore by mainstream browsers on Win/Linux at least
<Habbie>
also 13th, wifi doesn't automatically connect
<Habbie>
amblik[m], thanks for confirming
<nephele>
Oh, you mean setting the origin of where you downloaded it from as an extended file attribute?
<amblik[m]>
yeah nephele
<phschafft>
the main stream is some data highway in the kernel of a modern OS? that is where all the emoji go bathing when you turn your screen off?
<nephele>
I know netservices did that, i don't know if the curl backend does (it already does some other wierd shit i dislike) but if it does not, you can make a ticket and assign it to me, definetely something we should do...
<nephele>
phschafft: emoji are speced, and anything with a specification is GOOD :D
<nephele>
amblik[m]: checking a random file i downloaded, it does have a META:url set for it, from where the file came
<nephele>
other file also does this, so yeah i think it does set it :)
<Habbie>
> Please don't add comments to say something is still an issue.
<Habbie>
(just funny given the recent conversation)
<amblik[m]>
that's great, another way Haiku can make your life easier then
<nephele>
well, they ought to have read the bugtrackeretiquette :( Habbie
<Habbie>
i'll go read it now just in case. usually i don't make people sad without having read it
<nephele>
it's fairly staightforward i think
<Habbie>
ok, read it. i do think there might be cases where 'this newer hrev 6 months later is still broken' might be good information
<nephele>
amblik[m]: I thought there was a bug in the browser for a moment, because the URL was truncated, but it is a bug in the file manager displaying it :D
<Habbie>
but! that's not this case
<nephele>
Yes, that is good info if the hrev has something to do with the ticket
<nephele>
such still happens comments are quite annoying if you are cced to a ticket, since you get an email for each
<Habbie>
yes, understood
<Habbie>
process controller power saving is a lower CPU state?
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<nephele>
I think that mainly deals with how the sceduler moves stuff between cores, but I don't have intricate knowledge of that
<OscarL>
Habbie: should be... but beware... on some hardware it works poorly
<nephele>
I do know that i want it lower usb polling speed, or increase it, at some point...
<Habbie>
OscarL, oh yeah, i found out it exists at all from reading one of the top voted tickets ;)
<OscarL>
combine it with enabling/disabling individual cores in ProcessController for extra fun :-)
<Habbie>
hehe
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<Habbie>
a ticket: support hyper-v. another ticket: mouse scrollwheel does not work in hyper-v.
<nephele>
didn't i make those block each other Habbie?
<Habbie>
i'm looking now
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<Habbie>
i was just going by subjects
<Habbie>
the 'support hyper-v' ticket does not mean "it does not boot"
<Habbie>
it's about working -well- under it
<nephele>
I know
<nephele>
i'm an expert on the subject /s
<Habbie>
i now also know
<Habbie>
oof
<nephele>
(because it's my ticket)
<Habbie>
how's that?
<Habbie>
oh right
<nephele>
ri1beta2 oof
<Habbie>
is that because virt on windows desktops is hyperv too these days?
<nephele>
well, i still don't have any hyper-v supporting windows 10
<nephele>
Habbie: hmm? well hyper-v is their kernel virtualizastion framework
<Habbie>
i roughly know what hyperv is - i wrote a ton of code for interacting with it in a previous job
<nephele>
the thing to talk to the hypervisor seems pretty sensible, que commands in ram, and then afterwards do a specific hyperv
<Habbie>
then 2012R2 came out and they dropped WMI and my former coworkers had to rewrite all that code
<nephele>
i figured making haiku run nicely in hyper-v could be a good avenue to get windows users interested, imagine running a OS in a vm and it runs better than your host...
<Habbie>
yes
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<Habbie>
ha! as i suspected! my haiku build -without- waddlesplash' patch to use framebuffer for text, when holding shift, looks like hanging, continues booting when i press 'b'
<Habbie>
then all makes sense again
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<jessicah>
Habbie: what are you working on?
<Habbie>
jessicah, making haiku work on my Acer C732 chromebook, and for an extra challenge, without EFI
<AlienSoldier>
can't upfate, softeare updater complain "updades did not complete, failed to downlaod package haiku_86"
<AlienSoldier>
*update
<AlienSoldier>
*software
<jessicah>
Why without EFI? Is it broken in general?
<jessicah>
Is it x86/arm, 32-bit only?
<Habbie>
jessicah, as far as i understand from the mrchromebox/chrultrabook documentation, going EFI requires hardware tinkering, while i have SeaBIOS without messing with hardware. I can mess with hardware, but Linux works this way, so I feel Haiku should too
<Habbie>
it is x86 64 bit
<jessicah>
Ah okay, and a text mode grub works okay?
<Habbie>
great question! it does!
<Habbie>
you pinpointed a spot that holds mysteries
<jessicah>
Got to start with the basics
<jessicah>
I spent months working on boot stuff
<jessicah>
Hacks like yours of plotting pixels to gauge progress
<Habbie>
i tried plotting pixels but they were not at A000
<Habbie>
my hack was while(1); in places to use 'hang' as a signal
<Habbie>
the pixels i mentioned early look like a loader bug
<Habbie>
but yes
<jessicah>
you mean B8000, don't you?
<Habbie>
B800 is text console and CGA
<Habbie>
A000 is VGA graphics
<Habbie>
i'd have to look up which one of those EGA graphics used
<Habbie>
and one additional zero for non-segment addressing indeed
<jessicah>
Ah, so where are you up to?
<Habbie>
oh things are pretty neat now
<jessicah>
You're still in segmented addressing?!
<Habbie>
oh, no
<Habbie>
but in this process i have been
<jessicah>
Ah
<jessicah>
So you don't need help then? All fixed?
<jessicah>
It sounded like you still had problems
<Habbie>
anyway, current state: a single // inside the loader makes haiku boot; 2 lines in agp_gart and intel_extreme make graphics look right; many more lines from waddlesplash make the boot menu work
<Habbie>
and the touchpad does not work
<jessicah>
What comment?
<Habbie>
(neither does the touchscreen, which two weeks ago i did not know i had, but i don't care about it that much)
<Habbie>
jessicah, //set_text_mode() in platform_init_video in bios_ia32/video.cpp
<jessicah>
Huh, weird
<Habbie>
for reasons unclear, that function causes a reboot
<Habbie>
yes
<Habbie>
i did a bunch of experiments from freedos and it's fine there
<jessicah>
Oh, triple fault? Intriguing
<Habbie>
i don't know if it's a triple fault
<Habbie>
but if i had a dollar for each device on which Haiku manages to cause triple faults is $2
<Habbie>
which is not a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice
<Habbie>
s/is \$2/i'd have \$2/
<Habbie>
as for 'need help' and 'all fixed'
<Habbie>
i am doing my compiling -on- haiku now
<Habbie>
which is a great indicator of "works pretty well" :)
<Habbie>
but some of the patches i'm running with can't just be upstreamed
<jessicah>
Well the fact it's full of stack allocated values without any init, not exactly great code
<Habbie>
what is?
<jessicah>
video.cpp
<Habbie>
did you see hrev58850?
<jessicah>
`bios_regs regs;`
<jessicah>
No
<Habbie>
58850 makes sure anything not specified is zero
<Habbie>
when i tested it it made things worse, but i had other patches applied
<Habbie>
also it -should- be so that the registers not set explicitly in video.cpp don't matter, but i did not audit all calls
<jessicah>
Hmm
<jessicah>
Also weird that it would make things worse, that's completely bonkers
<Habbie>
yes, but that might be a measurement error
<Habbie>
i checked and my notes for that are not of sufficient quality
<Habbie>
today's master+just that //set_text_mode boots
<Habbie>
(unless i want the boot menu)
<jessicah>
Yeah, boot menu there wants a text console
<Habbie>
yes
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<jessicah>
did you try hard coding a known working mode?
<Habbie>
is "the haiku loader detects a working 1024x768 mode from VBE just fine" an answer?
<jessicah>
I mean a specific text mode
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<jessicah>
for the `set_text_mode` call
<Habbie>
so, mode 'ax=3' works fine *in freedos*, but it's a framebuffer emulation from mrchromebox' SeaBIOS
<jessicah>
I'm surprised it even calls that if it's not entering text mode
<Habbie>
which does not render things written to b8000
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<jessicah>
I wonder how the debug code in their seabios works, if it works at all
<Habbie>
i don't even know if there is any debug code in there
<Habbie>
hmm. what i did not test in freedos is going graphical and then back to text
<Habbie>
what i also did not test is grub in text mode and an unpatched (so with set_text_mode) haiku loader
<jessicah>
There are some debug statements, I didn't look in more detail
<Habbie>
then you have looked at it more than i have
<jessicah>
Hehe
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<Habbie>
it isn't finished/fully working but it helped me debug a few things
<Habbie>
freedos is a pretty clean environment to talk to a BIOS
* phschafft
was reading edlin for a second.
<Habbie>
phschafft, i did almost end up using edlin on freedos, but i found a vim port that worked ;)
<phschafft>
;)
<phschafft>
copy con file
<Habbie>
god that would suck for the whole stage1 asm :)
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<phschafft>
on my first own computer I started by exactly that. I typed in a batch file that was some super simple editor.
<Habbie>
i have also done that :)
<jessicah>
Haha, nutters :p
<phschafft>
and than my 4.5V block battery died.
<phschafft>
which was the first data loss I had.
<OscarL>
"copy con"... man, haven used that in a while.
<OscarL>
*haven't
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* phschafft
goes and prints some t-shirts with that for everyone in the room.
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<AlienSoldier>
i am testing 64 bit haiku for the first time
<OscarL>
welcome to the future! :-P
<AlienSoldier>
i don't see much difference so far
<Habbie>
well that means it's working
<AlienSoldier>
and the future is haiku on NeoGeo :)
<Habbie>
64 kB RAM
<Habbie>
well now
<AlienSoldier>
with native sprite scalling icon :P
<Habbie>
that might be the easy part!
<AlienSoldier>
What would be nice is an automated migration path that bring all your other "platform" app to the new haiku version, like all my 32 bit app available to the 64bit partition (if we want) or arm device etc.
<AlienSoldier>
1080 videos play easier
<OscarL>
the extra registers help there.
<AlienSoldier>
mame menu is laggy, i guess it use openGL but i can't seem to enable sdl in the ini file.
<AlienSoldier>
going to install iceweasel now
<AlienSoldier>
i guess this is the best "firefox"? Is there one of the variant better than the others?
<OscarL>
No idea, sorry. I have only briefly tested iceweasel, and that was before 3dEyes started doing updates in it, and the other variants.
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<scanty>
waterfox is good, too... cursor bug seems less intrusive. i think librewolf does not have a private browsing mode, but the other two do.