<Begasus_32>
k, build cleaned, reboot to bare metal ...
<nipos>
Never had something like that happen here.And that server has quite a lot stuff installed
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<nephele>
this has a pretty much pristine rootfs, because all my stuff is in jails
<nephele>
it's not even a new major release, just a point upgrade
<nipos>
My stuff is always bare metal
<nephele>
how does this maddy server "implement" SPF? it's a DNS record...?
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<nipos>
Same,updated from 14.1 to 14.2 yesterday before setting up a new Inyoka instance,because I thought maybe bad things might happen otherwise
<nephele>
nipos: this was also after a failed update, where, becuase freebsd does updates in 2 parts for no reason, it fucked up the ssh server, so i could not connect to do the second part
<nipos>
Uhm,also never had that happen
<nephele>
honestly, quite a lot of bad ideas there... I really wish there was a server OS that didn't rely on putting stuff in random text files...
<nipos>
The only thing I ever fucked up with updating was updating ZFS without also updating the bootloader,then it couldn't boot anymore.But I could have avoided that by reading the manual.
<nipos>
"Implementing" SPF probably means that Maddy checks if the correct DNS records are set.I don't know.
<nephele>
the correct spf record is "all?"
<nephele>
hmm, anyway beta software doesn't seem nice for my email, i want something i don't have to touch often
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<nipos>
I haven't touched it for years
<nephele>
okay, but it's still marked beta
<nipos>
Yes,but it's working very reliable here
<nipos>
Using it for a few own domains+domains of friends+noreply stuff from my webservices
<nephele>
okay? I don't doubt that. I don't see where your "but" comes from. I don't want to use beta software for that, nothing more to it
<nephele>
even if it is reliable now. that's nice. Perhaps it will still be reliable when it is out of beta then
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<Habbie>
i again cannot reach git.haiku-os.org on port 22
<Peppersawce>
If it works with mkvs with multiple subtitles and audio... where can I get it? :)
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<Peppersawce>
@Begasus got disconnected right after asking that Haruna question btw
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<Habbie>
i have two usb sticks. i dd the same image to them. one can boot Haiku. one cannot. I did some digging in the boot loader but haven't found why yet
<Habbie>
but, on the failing one, once i make a partition table, haiku boots fine from a partition
<Habbie>
as this is now worked around, it goes on the long list ;)
<Habbie>
i also see some pending changes in Gerrit that touch a lot of that code
<Habbie>
<WebPositive> The 'Welcome' package is missing on your system
<Habbie>
that feels like a bug
<Habbie>
indeed /boot/system/documentation/welcome is empty
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<Habbie>
also, is it normal that i need to restart WebPositive after connecting wifi?
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<Habbie>
i am now trying to build Haiku inside my Haiku. would be nice if it was self hosting :)
<nephele>
how is that a bug?
<nephele>
did you install the welcome package?
<Habbie>
no. is that an action i should have manually taken?
<nephele>
that, or having a netwok connection. :) On the betas this is in the normal image, on the nightlies it is ommited
<Habbie>
ah ok good
<Habbie>
this is a nightly i built myself indeed
<nephele>
so basically, this is a html5 page that is included in webpositives image directly
<nephele>
if you have the welcome package, it will use this instead. or if you have network it may use the online version
<nephele>
if you don't have either it will show you this fallback page :)
<Habbie>
yes, understood
<Habbie>
i keep forgetting that dd'ing a fresh build will lose wifi settings ;)
<Habbie>
but, i now finally have a more permanent install with more than 35MB free (which is what the anyboot image roughly has)
<Habbie>
what is the point of logging in with HaikuDepot?
<Habbie>
oh oof, depot suffers like gerrit
<nephele>
You can leave comments and ratings
<Habbie>
that explains the app progress bar stopping
<Habbie>
nephele, ah right, nice
<nephele>
or i think, this may also be used for the web component where people can add sup0lemental data to packages
<nephele>
I also don't have an account :)
<Habbie>
ack :)
<nephele>
you are also having gerrit problems?
<Habbie>
yes, frequently
<Habbie>
http 404s and ssh disconnecting
<Habbie>
16:08Z <x512[m]> Habbie: It is periodically crashing and recovering. CC: kallisti5
<Habbie>
and depot gives me frequent 404s too
<nephele>
I am not sure if that diagnostic is correct, but i have these issues aswell. but also on cgit
<Habbie>
i don't know that either. i just know Gerrit deals poorly with it
<Habbie>
tells me to 'sign in' in the middle of an action :)
<Habbie>
i just cancel and wait 5 minutes and try again
<nephele>
slightly annoying, but good that the problem isn't on my end :D
<Habbie>
ah, yes!
<Habbie>
i wonder how long this full haiku build will take. but, more interesting is how long incremental builds will take after it
<Habbie>
debugging drivers will be easier if i don't need to build remotely, dd new anyboot to storage, reboot
<nephele>
uh, why? just copy the hpkg? :D
<nephele>
or just the driver? :)
<Habbie>
copy hpkg: not enough free space in the anyboot to then install it
<Habbie>
just the driver: i could not overwrite the existing one (as it came from hpkg!) and did not look into how to put it elsewhere
<Habbie>
i have some finding out to do about building a driver and then testing it without a reboot
<nephele>
just into non-packaged with the same path
<Habbie>
i know there's docs
<Habbie>
right
<Habbie>
i figured something like that was possible, but instead i invested my time in shortening the cycle even more
<nephele>
and to be sure also blacklist the old driver
<kallisti5[m]>
Sigh. Probably more scrapers 😮💨. Let me take a gander
<Habbie>
nephele, right! and then give my 'fork' a slightly different name?
<nephele>
fork?
<Habbie>
'edited version of the driver'
<nephele>
no. same name, just in non-.packaged
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<Habbie>
is the blacklist by full path?
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<nephele>
path in the package
<Habbie>
ah ok, cool
<nephele>
so without /system/ in front
<kallisti5[m]>
kallisti5[m]: yup. looks likely. cgit freaking out. I've restarted it and moved pootle to another node
<Habbie>
and how do i tell haiku to load/init my freshly built driver?
<nephele>
put it into non-packaged. it should do this on it's own, if it has the same name
<nekobot>
[haiku/haiku] e19e27b42d4f - keymaps: clean up Latin-American and Spanish keymaps.
<Habbie>
phschafft, nah
<nephele>
bash has a emacs *and* vi editing mode?
<Habbie>
nephele, so i understand. i haven't tried the vi one
<Habbie>
nephele, re your tablet - i'm just collecting facts. you are in debian? you can run things, a shell, etc., you just want to be root now?
<phschafft>
nephele: plus custom bindings and stuff. ;)
<nephele>
Habbie: yeah
<Habbie>
nephele, can you set, please read this generally, grub/kernel command line things?
<nephele>
i don't know if grub will like the keyboard over usb-c hub, but in general i have grub available
<Habbie>
if you can edit the kernel commandline in grub, you can add 'init=/bin/sh'
<Habbie>
hmm. one 'click' of the mouse scrollwheel scrolls the Terminal by more than a screen
<PawanYr>
and IsVisible just returns whether the current workspace is >=0, so doing this causes IsVisible to return true when it shouldn't. So before I submit a patch removing this call, does anyone know why it's being made? Seems to function fine without it
<PawanYr>
Kinda obscure question, but I've been trying to figure out a bug that's been annoying me - when I use Workspaces to move a terminal that's scrolling on another workspace, the terminal begins drawing into the current workspace; tracked this down to Desktop::MoveWindowBy, where we update an invisible window's current workspace to the one it's being moved on. Trouble is, the current workspace is set to -1 for windows on another workspace,
<Habbie>
PawanYr, i have no answers but that's some excellent debugging
<Habbie>
i have the hardest problem of the month. picking a hostname.
<phschafft>
PawanYr++
<phschafft>
Habbie: I can so much relate.
<Habbie>
:)
<Habbie>
normally this is hard
<Habbie>
but it's extra hard now
<Habbie>
this laptop also has a debian install
<Habbie>
i picked a hostname for that
<Habbie>
i want the haiku install to be distinct, but not just add -haiku or something
<nephele>
PawanYr: i'm not quite sure i understand the question, we shouldn't draw when not visible to save on processing time generally... but if the call is wrong, it should probably just be fixed?
<nephele>
Habbie: that kinda worked. I got into a rescue shell, i changed the password, rebooted... and the password is still wrong :(
<Habbie>
nephele, huh, weird. were you doing it on the right fs? how did you change it?
<nephele>
i typed "passwd"
<Habbie>
that's the right tool
<Habbie>
wifi is not super stable in Haiku here
<phschafft>
Habbie: personally all my *machines* have a latter-and-number naming, the systems on them use the same schema and both are then combined. and then there are generation names (basically they provide a nice name to the machine ignoring reinstalls and stuff like that). plus naturllay services all have the own names that CNAME to the current provider.
<Habbie>
phschafft, what letters?
<phschafft>
they all start with ph, followed by zero or one letter for the type.
<Habbie>
ah
<Habbie>
ok. as my Debian hostname is astronaut, i settled on 'haikunaut' :)
<PawanYr>
nephele: I just wasn't sure if there was some intentional reason to set these windows visible, or maybe if the person who wrote that wasn't thinking about how IsVisible was implemented and had some other goal in mind; in any case, I will just push the patch and see if anyone on Gerrit knows
<phschafft>
so you have for example ph9 running phv4 as it's main OS, and they are known by waterhole.
<phschafft>
Habbie++
<nephele>
Habbie: what the fuck. Systemd has a rescue mode (and it's accesible from grub), boot that. and it goes "welcome to resuce mode" or something, and right after that yeah no the root account is *locked*
<nephele>
and gives me no options, and pressing enter boots to desktop
<phschafft>
nephele: I mean you can still break.
<Habbie>
phschafft, waterhole?
<Habbie>
nephele, oh, i remember that mode also asking me for the root password yes
<nephele>
okay, back in shell
<nephele>
started bash, tried again
<nephele>
"cannot locck /etc/shadow try again later"???
<Habbie>
is your fs mounted rw?
<phschafft>
Habbie: yes, the one before that was grassland, and the one after will be graveyard.
<nephele>
hmm, dunno
<Habbie>
phschafft, hehe
<Habbie>
nephele, touch /x :)
<phschafft>
and now people can guess where those names come from. ;)
<Habbie>
phschafft, i'm thinking horses ;)
<nephele>
Habbie: 1) on Haiku this would error out 2) yes that was it :D
<phschafft>
nephele: generally the system keeps the filesystems read-only unless needed. consider something like: mount / -o remount,rw
<nephele>
i deleted the password to both root and the user
<Habbie>
nephele, mount -o remount,rw / i think
<nephele>
yes, already did that
<Habbie>
nephele, 1) error out how?
<Habbie>
ok cool
<phschafft>
and then just passwd to change passwords
<phschafft>
Habbie: it's an elephant graveyard. maybe that helps.
<nephele>
i'm sure it's a conspiracy
<Habbie>
phschafft, close enough!
<nephele>
honestly, this tablet is amd64 and has efi, it could run Haiku too
<nephele>
just Haiku does not do video over usb-c output :(
<nephele>
and i don't actually own the attached keyboard
<Habbie>
if it's a tablet, why do you need video over usb-c? also, what's missing from Haiku to do that?
<nephele>
multi monitor support for one thing
<Habbie>
also, sidenote, my entire project the last few weeks has been to get Haiku working on this chromebook -without- going efi
<nephele>
i don't "need" it, but it would be very goot to have to make something like this usefull
<nephele>
heh, why?
<Habbie>
that's a great question!
<Habbie>
one reason is that the mrchromebox website tells me that getting efi (instead of a poor bios) requires disabling write protect, which is something i -can- do but why would i
<Habbie>
and the other reason is closely tied together: linux runs fine this way, so Haiku should be able to as well
* nephele
waits for the "EFI killed my family dog"
<Habbie>
if gerrit wasn't so broken i would have submitted more patches already
<Habbie>
but i will
<Habbie>
oh, no, i like efi
<Habbie>
bash: vi: command not found
<Habbie>
"the default haiku install is so poor" :D
* Habbie
installs the vis port that he made last year
<Habbie>
right, that doesn't automatically get called vi
<Habbie>
remind me, does Haiku have something like Debian's "alternatives"?
<nephele>
hmm, well, before I used FreeBSD i was like "eww vi", afterwards i was like "yay vi"
<nephele>
not exactly, but we have the qualifier for iinstalling stuff by handles
<nephele>
like "pkgman install cmd:vi"
<nephele>
instead of a specific package
<Habbie>
oh that i know! and i love it!
<Habbie>
alpine has it too
<Habbie>
and i have an open PR with openwrt for adding that feature
<Habbie>
'pkgman search cmd:vi' even returns vis, but i bet it's matching 'cmd:vis'
<Habbie>
right. git grep on haikuports suggests vim is the one that got to claim cmd:vi
<nephele>
there is no claiming, you just can't install both at the same time in the same set
<nephele>
if they both provide the same command
<nephele>
(well, technically you could, but one of them will get drowned out... xD)
<Habbie>
yea
<Habbie>
i noticed something like that with license files in hpkg
<Habbie>
which hurts less than binary names
<Habbie>
ok, going to build haiku.hpkg -on- the chromebook and install it, see if things work out
<Habbie>
if they do, i am now self hosted right on this laptop
<Habbie>
(and then i can bump hrev by one to get working Keymap!)
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<nephele>
calibrated the touchscreen, didn't work... hmmm
<nephele>
maybe it's not using xorg, but then the calibrator tool surely wouldn't have worked
<phschafft>
nephele: I feel like the alternatives thing of Debian is also a POSIX-ish implementation of my considerations of semantic working with machines.
<nephele>
gonna try xcalibtrate, on my other laptop xinput_calibrator also didn't work
<nephele>
why is it always wierd tools that have tree implementations that all don't quite work
<nephele>
Habbie: quite cool how far you have gotten already
<Habbie>
yes, i am not unhappy
<nephele>
gotta say i would have stuck with efi, but beeing compatible out of the box is very sleak
<Habbie>
once i get the touchpad my job is "done" although not everything i have did up to here is upstreamable
<Habbie>
the gpu fix is
<Habbie>
the bootloader fix currently is not
<Habbie>
and yes, i often pick the path that people have worked out
<Habbie>
but doing the other thing might help other people down the road
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<nephele>
(though on a personal note, i wouldn't buy a chromebook xD)
<Habbie>
'have did' jesus. 'have done'
<Habbie>
nephele, the price was "one bottle of rosé" so it could have been five bucks, but i went for ten
<Habbie>
i already had a chromebook that i planned to try Haiku on but then a neighbour offered another one
<nephele>
ah, a "can you make this e-waste usefull" challenge? :D
<Habbie>
oh yes
<Habbie>
it's what i do
<Habbie>
voorkant.org has the same motivation
<Habbie>
"there is this device that people keep throwing out"
<nephele>
why this is also what I am doing right now, just with *literal* e-waste
<Habbie>
hehe
<Habbie>
yeah. this chromebook still worked fine as a chromebook, just out of updates
<Habbie>
anyway, what i like about these chromebooks (and i know they're not unique) is that they're small and light
<Habbie>
and often cheap
<nephele>
chromebook having two chromes installed because they couldn't keep up with chromes update cycle is the funnies thing ever
<Habbie>
two? do say more :)
<nephele>
well, they used to render the system UI with the same binary, the entire idea behind the chromebook
<nephele>
but they could not keep up with the updates of google chrome and had to do it in lockstep... so... they have an older chrome that does the system UI
<nephele>
and a newer chrome that does the "browser" thing
<Habbie>
ah! right
<Habbie>
that sadly makes sense :D
<nephele>
i'm going to try booting one x86 tablet with the other x86 tablet
<Habbie>
i know all of these words
<Habbie>
but in context, the 'with' raises questions ;)
<nephele>
oh, enlightenment crashed :(
<nephele>
I'm going to install fastboot on debian, and then download the postmarketos "x86 generic" image
<nephele>
and then try to fastboot boot it to the other tablet in the android recovery
<phschafft>
enlightenment crashed? so basically back at karma=0?
<nephele>
because this stupid x86 tablet is the only linux computer i have :)
<Habbie>
ah! that makes sense
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<Habbie>
i've been wanting to try postmarketos
<nephele>
I have a fairphone5 running it
<Habbie>
i'm not sure i have an officially supported phone
<nephele>
i wanted to get arcan to run on it, but that needs libglvnd and postmartketos doesnt have it
<Habbie>
and the single spare phone i have, there's good reasons to keep it on android
<Habbie>
warning: Invalid jamfile cache: Failed to read file info.
<Habbie>
i appear to have run into fuckery
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<nephele>
oof
<nephele>
I hope the touchscreen now works
<nephele>
the stupid greeter is probably using wayland
<nephele>
so not using the X11 config
<nephele>
hmm, no, the touch input is still "wherever"
<nephele>
no xorg log...
<nephele>
"PANTS=ON" is in my env though
<Habbie>
what is PANTS here?
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<nephele>
No clue
<Habbie>
oh :D thought you mentioned it for a reason
<nephele>
I am just very confused why there are so many env variables defined
<nephele>
I am now not sure if this is even using X11 or wayland
<Habbie>
if you can open a terminal, it's easy to find out
<Habbie>
in a greeter, it's harder
<nephele>
how? :(
<nephele>
so many env vars
<nephele>
DISPLAY is set
<Habbie>
but is WAYLAND_DISPLAY set?
<nephele>
no
<Habbie>
sounds like X
<nephele>
I don't understand this touchscreen
<nephele>
why is the data such a mess
<Habbie>
what data?
<Habbie>
i don't understand why my anyboot build is unhappy about webpositive
<Habbie>
going to try just building haiku.hpkg instead
<nephele>
of the touchscreen calibration
<Habbie>
ah
<nephele>
I'm getting the feeling this tool doesn't understand that this touch matrix is rotated
<nephele>
and that if the "original" data value would render out of the visible surface that it can't process the touch point
<Habbie>
i also recently learned that the screen and the touch layer on it on a device were entirely unrelated devices
<Habbie>
which did not even agree on which corner was (0,0)
<nephele>
now it managed to build a matrix where all points (after transformation) are exactly in the middle. HOW
<Habbie>
i have a stupid question. what do i tell jam to give me a fresh haiku.hpkg?
<nephele>
what do you mean by fresh?
<nephele>
just "jam @target haiku.hpkg" is enough
<Habbie>
like @nightly-raw?
<nephele>
sure, or nightly-anyboot. in this case it does not matter
<Habbie>
ok
<nephele>
you probably want "haiku.hpkg haiku_devel.hpkg haiku_datatranslators.hpkg" though
<nephele>
I'm getting the feeling, interpreting this touch data, that maybe the digitized does not cover the whole screen properly
<nephele>
and the fault may be from that aswell
<Habbie>
no file called 'haiku.hpkg' is appearing. i do see generated/objects/haiku/x86_64/packaging/packages/packages_build/regular/hpkg_-haiku.hpkg
<Habbie>
but not, like before on a cross build linux setup, ./objects/haiku/x86_64/packaging/packages/haiku.hpkg
<nephele>
it's supposed to appear
<Habbie>
ok cool
<nephele>
i update my system like that usually
<Habbie>
yeah, i had the same plan
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<Habbie>
ugh another git 404
<nephele>
hmm, let me rebuild just to make sure i'm not telling nonsense
<Habbie>
appreciated
<nephele>
hmm, i could make an email server out of this tablet
<Habbie>
my neighbour has an old laptop with a broken screen. perfect home server :)
<nephele>
ugh, install pmbootstrap with api -> too old please try pip or clone from git
<nephele>
install pip
<nephele>
pip -> no buddy you are using api i'm not allowed to install stuff
<Habbie>
api?
<nephele>
apt*
<Habbie>
ah
<Habbie>
you need a venv
<Habbie>
i like pipenv for managing those
<nephele>
i want to use a command
<nephele>
this is all too complicated
<nephele>
:)
<Habbie>
apt install pipenv
<Habbie>
mkdir mypmbootstrapworkingenvironment ; cd mypm<tab>
<Habbie>
pipenv pmbootstrap
<Habbie>
oops
<Habbie>
pipenv install pmbootstrap
<Habbie>
pipenv run pmbootstrap ...
<nephele>
someone should make pmbootstrap run on haiku
<Habbie>
but not you
<nephele>
... even if they have to use qemu user mode
<Habbie>
right
<Habbie>
very linuxy i bet
<nephele>
nah, not me. do i look like a linux person to you :P
<Habbie>
i'll be honest. kind of and yet not really :D
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<nephele>
honestly i just want to start this tablet, and there is no prebuild image
<nephele>
and postmarketos peeps keep saying to use this tool
<nephele>
it seems way too big though, it does too many things
<nephele>
Habbie: well i made a linux mysellf to stuff into an ESP once
<nephele>
i guess that means i have enough linux knawledge
<nephele>
i just don't like it
<Habbie>
what does ESP mean here?
<nephele>
EFI service partition
<Habbie>
oh right
<Habbie>
a whole linux in it? how big was the ESP?
<nephele>
some size
<nephele>
you can't make an esp smal enough that you *can't* fit a linux inside
<nephele>
(because the spec sais fat32 for desktop computers)
<Habbie>
my ESP is 1GB, but it could be smaller ;)
<nephele>
that's big
<Habbie>
yeah
<Habbie>
but i put actual kernels in it these days
<Habbie>
and i can spare the space
<nephele>
okay your tool and the tool pipx don't want to install pmbootstrap
<nephele>
they just tell me how many versions exist and how it will refuse to install any of them
<Habbie>
fun
<Habbie>
do they tell you why?
<nephele>
"error: ignored the following yanked: versions: <lots of numbers between 1.0.1 and 2.1.0>"
<nephele>
why is the haiku forum font now look so wierd
<Habbie>
ok, webpositive also fails on a hrev58856 build
<nephele>
what's failing about it?
<Habbie>
ld complaining about missing objects
<Habbie>
unrelated - can i configure the power button to not immediately cause a shutdown?
<nephele>
"WARNING: about to install systemd"
<nephele>
lol
<Habbie>
haha
<B2IA>
(Shaka R5) I'm Reading your Mama jokes here in BeShare in R5. Brings me back... Thanks for the laughs :-)
<nephele>
uhm, yes you can but i forgot how
<Habbie>
ok
<Habbie>
because my first jam was interrupted by a cat ;)
<nephele>
i think it's some hacky way though. intercept it in input_server or something
<Habbie>
and i wonder if it got in a bad state
<nephele>
or it may be handled differently because of acpi...
<Habbie>
right. i need to learn input_server anyway because this scroll wheel is going the wrong way and also is going too hard in terminal
<nephele>
if ld is complaining sounds like something might have failed beforehand
<Habbie>
oh yes, that seems obvious
<nephele>
okay i can't get the tablet started i wanted to run postmarketOS on. maybe it's empty
<nephele>
maybe i should go to sleep :)
<Habbie>
dropped all build state. just running 'jam' now. we will see
<nephele>
okay so half my build was purple
<nephele>
and it failed because of random headers
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<Habbie>
Attention is currently required from: Peter van Dijk.
<Habbie>
Patch set 1:Code-Review +2
<Habbie>
nephele put +2 on a patch i submitted to gerrit
<Habbie>
what attention does it need?
<nephele>
you can justify how I am wrong for aproving the change, clearly
<Habbie>
as a poker table operator once told me about my action compared to my action a minute before, "weird" :D
<nephele>
gerrit operates on "turns" somehow, so since i played my turn (by reviewing) it'd be your turn again to respond to the review
<Habbie>
ok
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<Habbie>
404
<nephele>
you don't have to do anything
<Habbie>
alright
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<nephele>
i left it open (unmerged) so other devs can take a look, usually someone else will merge it. but if it is not merged in 1 or 2 days i will merge it then
<Habbie>
great
<Habbie>
i have at least one more patch to submit, but i'm taking it slow just to get used to the flow here
<Habbie>
and also gerrit being down a lot does not help
<nephele>
Indeed
<nephele>
but so far it worked fine i think, you submitting patches i mean :)
<nephele>
the first trouble usually occurs when people fumble the change-id stuff and then have duplicate changes after adressing review comments
<Habbie>
yeah, but getting used to gerrit was a lot harder with the errors that were not my fault
<Habbie>
right
<Habbie>
i do think i have that mostly covered and understood
<Habbie>
the review unit being a single commit is weird to me for now, but it works for the patches i have so far
<nephele>
it doesn't have to be, you are allowed to submit multiple commits at once