<OscarL>
still having issues to start the PC each day, lol. I should take a look at the PSU to see if replacing some caps may help. Too bad that even my multimeter has died, heh :-)
<OscarL>
other than that... good. got me a nice piece of cheese yesterday, so... kinda happy, actually :-)
<Begasus[m]>
one takes to good with the bad :)
<Begasus[m]>
funny enough eating some cheese here too atm :)
<OscarL>
cheese is life :-)
<Begasus[m]>
part of :P
<OscarL>
right... wine and olives exist too :-)
<Begasus[m]>
I'll pass on both there :)
<Begasus[m]>
cleaning some directories for the KDE packages
<Begasus[m]>
this one I'm not sure, but so far hasn't caused me any pain :) /boot/system/data/qlogging-categories6
<Begasus[m]>
OscarL python14 good to go?
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<OscarL>
yeah, the update went quite smoothly.
<Begasus[m]>
ah cool LLVM20 still building on 32bit buildmaster (now hope nothing goes wrong with packaging) :)
<Begasus[m]>
good, no problem building that on beta5 32bit
<Begasus[m]>
just not getting a tip :P
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<OscarL>
Begasus[m]: those llvm20 errors on 32 bits look solvable to me (but not *by* me, surely korli will be able to patch them :-)). At least their're not yet another OOM situation.
<Begasus[m]>
guess so too OscarL I think korli will be on it :)
<OscarL>
s/their're/they're/.
<OscarL>
"their're" LOL, I'm getting worse :-)
<Begasus[m]>
too bad my 32bit install(s) aren't really up to it
<Begasus[m]>
heh
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<Begasus[m]>
s/thei're/they are
<Begasus[m]>
well, with the files in place Tipster is fine
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* OscarL
refrains for making jokes on that.
<OscarL>
s/for/from/. Jeez.
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<Begasus[m]>
lol
<Begasus[m]>
bad night? ;)
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<OscarL>
brain might be not entirely functional tonight, yeah. (never is, but... :-D)
<Begasus[m]>
Nice, Tokodon doesn't crash anymore when someone boosts a toot :)
<Begasus[m]>
could very well because I removed the file in directory knotifications6 :P
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<Begasus[m]>
OscarL back again with using 10 workspaces occupied :)
<OscarL>
LOL. Tried cutting down a bit on the coffee? may help! :-P
<OscarL>
I keept it to only 3, to not over-extend myself :-)
<OscarL>
*3 workspaces, I mean.
<Begasus[m]>
ah, oof, 3 coffees couldn't carry me through the day :P
<Begasus[m]>
nuke boost1.83, moving up to 1.85
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<OscarL>
Hello there BrunoSpr. Hoping you're having a nice day :-)
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<Begasus[m]>
you scared him :P
<OscarL>
I seem to have that effect quite often yeah. Not sure if due to my charning personallity, or my Shrek-like appearrance :-)
<OscarL>
so... it is just 2 strings, one for "one", and the other for the "other" cases. I was getting confused by seeing "0, plural,one" and then "other".
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<OscarL>
added a comment on that PR, asking for "comment to translators".
<OscarL>
Begasus[m]: that "gefunden" I pasted comes from a similar string template. the one for number of elements found :-)
<Begasus[m]>
gathered that OscarL :) (German)
<OscarL>
I just searched for "plural" on the first 100% translation I saw :-)
<Begasus[m]>
just looked at the first non English that was done :P
<OscarL>
catalan/german all greek to my anyway :-P
<Begasus[m]>
lol
<Begasus[m]>
German I get, Catalan,Greek is all Chinese to me :P
<Begasus[m]>
how is it in French? replacer or trouver? ;)
<nekobot>
• Begasus (27438be5): kopeninghours_kf6, more cleanup (#12347)
<OscarL>
your native language is Flemish? (sorry for the ignorant question)
<Begasus[m]>
Limburgs! :)
* OscarL
goes to read up on it :-)
<Begasus[m]>
but yeah, just we are a bid proud of our provice :)
<Begasus[m]>
s/provice/province
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<OscarL>
"South Low Franconian varieties" sounds fun :-)
<Begasus[m]>
heh
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<Begasus[m]>
Flemish is broad, and commonly used by outsiders :P
<OscarL>
Understood.
<OscarL>
Like Castilian is "Spanish" in other languages... even if it is just one of the languages spoken in Spain.
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<Begasus[m]>
but Castalian is an official language, Limburgs isn't (but it's oh so nice, too bad the youngsters don't speak it anymore like we did)
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<Begasus[m]>
As "Limburgers" we share a history with our Netherlands counterpart, hence we still get allong well
<Begasus[m]>
we even share the same antum(*) (song)
<OscarL>
Just noticed the "two" Limburgs (NL/BE) :-)
<OscarL>
"Limburgish shares many vocabulary and grammatical characteristics with both German and Dutch. A characteristic feature of many dialects of Limburgish is the occurrence of a lexical pitch accent (Franconian tone accent), which is shared with the adjacent Central Franconian dialects of German."
<Begasus[m]>
right, we were one at one point in history
<OscarL>
and still sounds like way easier to learn than whatever alien language Euskara/Basque language is :-D
<Begasus[m]>
hence some of us are still pretty familiar with French and German
<Begasus[m]>
probably :D
<Begasus[m]>
Getting by with German was handy at BeGeistert :)
<Begasus[m]>
comment "take a Lua ruler, it starts with 1!" :D
<OscarL>
just like pascal arrays :-)
<Begasus[m]>
lol
<Begasus[m]>
weirdos! :P
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<OscarL>
IIRC, not sure if it was on ObjectPascal/Delphi or already present on older pascal... you could define array subindexes as say... my_array[5..10], so first item would be index 5. or even use negative indexes :-D
<OscarL>
Pascal was/is great. Too bad it is just too verbose even for me :-)
<OscarL>
I should like Nim... as in "ObjectPascal like meets Python syntax" dream language for me, but the code style I've seen on Nim's examples/stdlib... just puts me off.
<Begasus[m]>
nim isn't fully functional iirc also?
<OscarL>
"type temperature = array [-10 .. 50] of real;" and they say C is more expressive than pascal? Pfft! :-P
<OscarL>
to be fair... not many languages can claim to be "fully functional", specially depending on how strictly you define that.
<Begasus[m]>
I only go by on what issues pop up at haikuports :)
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<OscarL>
ah... "fully functional" as in "fully working"! I was thinking more about "functional programming" (vs other programming paradigms) :-D
<OscarL>
well... not many languages can claim to be "fully working" either depending on how strict is the definition anyway, heh.
<Begasus[m]>
small tool to define the debug level for KDE :)
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<OscarL>
cool thing to have once you're chasing after a bug or two.
<OscarL>
heh, according to repology... HaikuPorts is the only one already having 3.14.0~b1 :-D
<OscarL>
and I had a completed build ready even before the https://www.python.org/download/pre-releases/ page was updated (but it got updated before I finished running my last run of the test-suite :-D)
<Begasus[m]>
whohoo! congrats on that one OscarL ! :-)
<Begasus[m]>
coffee refill :)
<OscarL>
keeping up with the updates for each alpha version certainly helped smooth things out.
<Begasus[m]>
if the base is fine, updating gets easier
<OscarL>
now I need to gather some energy to keep doing the 3.9 cleanups/removal, find a way to make "python3_default" packages work, and start testing 3.13 as a possibly next "default" python.
<OscarL>
should be able to "drop"/skip 3.11 and 3.12 in that case... even if it means kepping 3.10 as depencency for some packages.
<Begasus[m]>
+1
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<Begasus[m]>
hence me doing with poppler/boost/llvm (not touching ICU :P ) :)
<OscarL>
*keeping (wonder if there's such a thing as a form of "typing dyslexia" :-D)
<Begasus[m]>
I think I got that for reading, I read through all your typos without problems :D
<Begasus[m]>
some sort of "reverse dyslexia" :P
<OscarL>
guess that's part of how languages "evolve" :-D
<Begasus[m]>
so got to keep those /boot/system/data/qlogging-categories6 files for the new tool :)
<nekobot>
• Begasus (7cf9dc60): kdsingleapplication, bump version to 1.1.0 (#12349)…
<OscarL>
My desktop PC seems fairly stable once (if) it finishes booting. Makes me think the issue must be with the "power good" cable/signal from the PSU... and/or the SouthBridge/EC chip on the mother board is showing signs of degradation (BIOS level temp readings, for example, jump all over the place till it "warms up").
<Begasus[m]>
take good care of it :)
<OscarL>
newer netbook is on par with the desktop perfomance in core per core comparison... but sadly it only has 2 instead of 4 :-)
<OscarL>
6W TDP vs 95W TDP on the other hand... is just insane. And yours is 15W TDP for 8c/16t, IIRC... just crazy how technology advances.
<Begasus[m]>
got me puzzled there, I only care about the performance, not the numbers :)
<OscarL>
lower "W TDP" number for the same performance is always good. means lower power bill / longer battery usage.
<OscarL>
also lower heat and thus less CPU throtling... better performance overall.
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<Begasus[m]>
eeps, building from source, version 25.07.70 (alpha build), just did 25.04.0 and just checked and see 25.04.1 is released :P
<Begasus[m]>
haven't finished updating all 24.12.3 ones :P
<OscarL>
need to get yourself a few clones to help out.
<Begasus[m]>
yeah ;) doesn't even cover a full-time job ... or I should learn how to focus :D
<Begasus[m]>
KDebugSettings on 25.04.1 :)
<Begasus[m]>
settings are save in /boot/home/config/settings/QtProject/qtlogging.ini after changing them (as upstream mentioned one could edit those by hand also) :)
<Begasus[m]>
afk for a while, dog food/then dogschool :)
<Begasus[m]>
cya peeps!
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<HaikuUser>
hello
<OscarL>
hello there HaikuUser.
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<goggen>
Hello. I run Haiku from usb stick on laptop. Can I not install software without installing?
<goggen>
Haikudepot gives error message when I try to install Falkon or other software.
<erysdren>
whats the error?
<goggen>
Fatal error... failed to create transaction
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<OscarL>
goggen: more likely you ran out of free space in the USB volume. Falkon is a large package, and requires a lot of dependencies.
<OscarL>
that is... if you prepared the USB by just writting the anyboot iso image in it.
<goggen>
I did, using Baleoetcher
<OscarL>
it has limited amount of free space, and won't use the full capacity of your drive by default.
<goggen>
It is a large drive, can I make a larger partition?
<OscarL>
*"the .iso image has limited amount [...]"
<OscarL>
you certainly can create a larger partition, yes.
<goggen>
Can I change partition from inside Haiku?
<goggen>
Change the size of it, I mean?
<OscarL>
the partition from where you boot cannot be changed in size.
<goggen>
Can it be done from Windows or Linux, ant then still work to boot Haiku?
<OscarL>
you can create a new partition on the rest of the drive (using the DriveSetup application), and then use the "Installer" app to install to that larger partition.
<goggen>
I tried, but it does not seem to install on the USB drive.
<OscarL>
What I usually do if only having one USB stick at hand is.... boot the .iso in a VM... and use that to install to a USB after creating a large Haiku partition to it.
<OscarL>
(or if having 2 usb sticks... boot from one, and install onto the other)
<OscarL>
It is better to create Haiku partitions from inside Haiku itself. If using other tools, they might not set the proper partition type, and then Haiku can't find the proper partition to boot from.
<OscarL>
exact details on how to properly setup partitions and bootloader will depend on if you're using BIOS or UEFI boot modes.
<goggen>
I will look into this later. May soon have a separate laptop for Haiku.
<goggen>
I am glad wifi is supported, but it will not connect to encrypted wifi. Is this also related to not having harddisk space?
<OscarL>
no, some WiFi drivers just have issues when connecting.
<OscarL>
you may need to retry a few times.
<OscarL>
I have one that only works/connects once in a blue moon, for whatever reason :-(
<OscarL>
other days, it decides to just connect and works all day. Go figure :-D
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<goggen>
I just installed Haiku on a laptop which already runs Windows11. A separate partition. How do I install a bootloader? I have rebooted and booted Haiku from USB stick again.
<bjorkintosh>
that should have been the first order of business, Herr Heisenberg.
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<goggen>
How do I get this laptop to dual boot now?
<OscarL>
"haiku_loader.efi" file is under "/system/data/platform_loaders/" on the system you have booted into.
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<mfny>
Hi all
<erysdren>
hello
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<mfny>
have an issue with Haiku whereby when i select any refresh rate above 60hz(in this case 75hz) i get a black screen, this is on intel igp.
<OscarL>
mfny: you may want to report the issue over the bug tracker at https://dev.haiku-os.org/, if it is not already reported for the exact model of igp you're using. The intel_extreme driver, while supporting a lot of different cards, is known to have issues with some of them at least.
<OscarL>
the following page gives good advice in how to report bugs in a useful manner: https://dev.haiku-os.org/wiki/ReportingBugs (specially the "Hardware Issues" in your case)
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<mfny>
oh and a software question, is there a remote desktop server available for Haiku ?
<OscarL>
I see some RPD clients, and FreeRPD over https://depot.haiku-os.org/, but not sure if the latter includes a server or not.
<OscarL>
mfny: there's a VNCserver, and I know Haiku's app_server has a "remote desktop mode" too, but never used the latter, so I can't help much with it.
<mfny>
OscarL: just to clarify should i use nightly to install or beta 5 ?
<OscarL>
depends on what you're looking for, mfny. beta5 is pretty stable, while nightly *might* better support your hardware, at the risk of some updates breaking it temporarily.
<OscarL>
in any case, one can switch back and forth between them, or just have more than one install. Haiku doesn't requires much storage space :-)
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<mfny>
OscarL: does nightly get diffrent updates to Beta ?
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* nephele
waves
<OscarL>
for the base system, yes. for the software from HaikuPorts, no, both get the same.
<OscarL>
hi nephele.
<nephele>
how is it going OscarL
<OscarL>
can't complain much, so... good I should say. Hoping the same on your side :-)
<nephele>
I want to finish my renga settings patch
<nephele>
xmpp coding sprint is in two weeks :)
<OscarL>
sounds good! hope you folks have much fun with that!
<nephele>
I do too. Renga is quite fun to build. Learned a lot about cleaning up views to use the layout system ;)
<nephele>
Now some more wierd other older parts to clean up like XML based settings, and every class beeing a singleton for some reason
<nephele>
gotta say, designing a new class is a bit difficult though, not sure what the scope should be exactly
<OscarL>
I hope one day to learn at least the basics of the layout system. The few GUI code I wrote was for BeOS-era, and tends to look pretty bad (both visually and code-wise :-D).
<nephele>
Heh, I never wrote pre-layouting code
<nephele>
is there some standard convention we have for locks in classes?
<nephele>
I want to basically lock the settings Class so it can be read only while it isn't beeing modified
* OscarL
gives way to proper devs to answer those questions.
<OscarL>
my "code" is generally simple enough as to not require locking. or sloppy enough to just YOLO it without locking :-P
<nephele>
In this case I'm writing a settings class used in the entire app
<nephele>
and while it's probably "okay" to do without locking, i really don't want to debug that 1 in 100 case where this fucks someones settings up :)
<nephele>
Is it allowed/good practice to define new status_t codes in an app?
<nephele>
Hmm, i guess making an enum and return values from that is much cleaner and more explicit
<OscarL>
"/* Developer-defined errors start at (B_ERRORS_END+1) */"
<OscarL>
that seems to imply that custom status_t are allowed at least.
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<nephele>
I figure having an enum, and therefore a defined error set, may be even neater
<OscarL>
sure, I just remembered that there was some "base value" for custom errors somewhere in the Be API.
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<nephele>
:)
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<nephele>
Hmm, is there some keyword to declare that a variable *can't* be written to? I think const is the one, but does this work for class member variables? for a default BMessage I have to load it once from ressources (default settings)
<nephele>
but after that I don't want this modified in RAM at all
<nephele>
asking for a language safety thing, if there isn't one that's okay. I'll just keep it as a normal member variable
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<mfny>
hm do i need to do anything other then run vncserver on the haiku server and connect via RealVNCviewer on the client ? are there any arguments i need on the server prehaps as its not working ?
<PulkoMandy>
nephele: Yes, that'swhat const does, but it's c++ so there will always be ways to force writing if you really want to
<OscarL>
nephele: can't use a private member and only expose a read-only getter method?
<nephele>
PulkoMandy: Okay, but how do I do this if i can't declare the data type in the class itself, in this case the default settings message for Renga
<nephele>
I can't declare the BMessage content inline I think?
<mfny>
or indeed any further configuration i need on the server side like a config file
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<PulkoMandy>
nephele: you can only initialize it from the constructor (in the part before its opening {). Otherwise it's not const as you are changing it
<PulkoMandy>
But do you really need it to be const? Usually you would make it private, so only the class methods can change it, and then add a method to ge< a const reference to it, so other classes can access it read-only
<bjorkintosh>
hi mfny
<nephele>
PulkoMandy: Hmm, I'm wondering. Currently my design for the Settings class is methods to get and to set data, and the internal BMessage is not exposed at all
<mfny>
bjorkintosh: oh hi, small world
<bjorkintosh>
yes.
<nephele>
the default settings message is also private here, I would in this case only make it const to shield myself from programming mistakes on my part
<PulkoMandy>
nephele: That works too, and avoid other classes having to worry about the internal settings format
<PulkoMandy>
Ok, makes sense for the default settings, I didn't think of that
<PulkoMandy>
Did you look at existing SettingsMessage classes in Haiku? I think there are a few that already do this (not in ready-to-use public apis, but in some apps in haiku git)
<nephele>
I looked at a bit, most seem to just write to a Message without any locking
<nephele>
i'm trying to make a class that will do some locking, and store the settings internal *allowed* state in the BMessage, so it can be inspected without the application running
<nephele>
and with explicit syncing to disk or the lack of it so stuff like UI state doesn't get written to disk unless something more important is written, or the application closes
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<nephele>
PulkoMandy: I'm unsure of how to handle default values though. I currently am writing it in a way that if a settings is not set the default will be returned, but maybe I should just return a not found and the called should deal with that instead?
<nephele>
the other option is to use the default settings to initilize the settings once and then forget about it as far as the class is concerned
<nephele>
(once when no settings are on disk)
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<PulkoMandy>
it's a good ioea to have the settings class return the default value. that will be one less thing for other parts of the code to worry about
<mfny>
bjorkintosh: dont suppose you would know anything about getting the VNC server working on Haiku would you ?
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<bjorkintosh>
mfny: no I just run haiku in proxmox.
<bjorkintosh>
works really nicely.
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<bjorkintosh>
quite happy with it as a matter of fact.
<nephele>
Well, it will also return a code that indicates this is the default value, so probably fine. Thanks :D
<PulkoMandy>
As to how to store them, directly as a bmessage seems simple but you can't make it const so you have to trust yourself. You can just have them as constants in the class if they are all simple values. Or you could have an instance of the settings class just for the default settings, that the "current" settings class can forward requests to
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<nephele>
I would like to trust the compiler to whack me if i do something stupid, but not having it const is okay. It'll be one member variable then (but a private one)
<PulkoMandy>
This is also useful if you want to implement a "revert" button in the settings window, as some haiku things do. That is done by making a backup copy of the settings class instance, and then restoring the "live" settings from that backup when the button is pressed
<nephele>
hmm, would that be done with archiving?
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<nephele>
I guess a simple way is to tell the settings class to cough up it's internal BMessage, and later give it back that BMessage if the settings are reverted
<PulkoMandy>
archiving is for converting a class into a bmessage (and back)
<PulkoMandy>
I undersatand that you are already managing the bmessage contents by yourself, so archiving is not needed
<PulkoMandy>
(but it's another possibne way to manage settings messages... lots of choices :D)
<nephele>
For another thing, do we need a functionality to have multiple values for the same key? Bmessage supports this, but it seems to me this is a bit more complexity (and difficulty) for a settings thing
<nephele>
but then on the other hand, it might come in handy for something like multi-account stuff. But then those can be stored without that aswell
<nephele>
difficulty for the caller to interpret the result, i mean
<PulkoMandy>
it will probably be needed, for exampne for custom status messages, the list of accounts (if that's not fully moved to the keystore)
<PulkoMandy>
The caller should not have problems if you return a BList or some other container
<nephele>
Then, two variants for calls?
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<PulkoMandy>
I don't know what api you have in mind. Are you doing specialized method for each setting, or a very generic GetStringSetting(settingName)?
<nephele>
Currentl have just a generic one, like settingStatus GetString(name, *value);
<PulkoMandy>
Ok, so yes you would need one for at least each type, including lists
<nephele>
Then one GetString and one GetStrings one. What should the "plain" version do if there are severall ones? or just ignore that case and return the index 0?
<PulkoMandy>
I think each setting has a type, if you use the wrong method it should tell you (probably call debugger()?}
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<PulkoMandy>
And I would go further and have one method per setting (GetUserAccounts, ...) so that the caller can't make that mistake
<nephele>
okay, so an overlayed type above the one BMessage has for List of String List of Bool etc. And take that out of the "template" data
<PulkoMandy>
Maybe using a macro to implement the methods, to not have to write the same code a dozen times
<nephele>
A preprocessor Macro?
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<nephele>
Well, I can go straight for specific methods if you want, that makes the code a tad less portable though. Is there a problem with writing these specific ones above generic ones?
<nephele>
(so the generic ones are portable)
<nephele>
Hmm, so we basically enforce that each setting name can only have one type, and that requesting the wrong one calls up the debugger, did i get that right?
<PulkoMandy>
Yes
<Habbie>
hmm. does webpositive not remember passwords?
<nephele>
Habbie: kinda. Are you talking about http normal logins?
<nephele>
if so that seems to be broken
<PulkoMandy>
And yes, the specific version would be less generic, but if it's done with a preprocessor macro, it would be easy to adjust for other projects (just replace the macros invokations, and easily make your own specific settings class)
<Habbie>
yeah, the haiku sso
<PulkoMandy>
Habbie: No password saving for now. Not #ure if it can be done with webkitlegacy
<nephele>
the haiku sso uses cookies, it's not using the normal http login struff
<Habbie>
oh like that
<Habbie>
yeah it's a form
<Habbie>
it remembered my user name, but i'm not sure -who- remembered that
<nephele>
it saves that you are logged in, but not your password
<Habbie>
i also cannot tell if Remember me is on or off
<Habbie>
that seems to be a rendering issue
<Habbie>
PulkoMandy, ah
<nephele>
file a ticket, assign it to me... maybe then I'll remember to actually adress that....
<nephele>
:)
<Habbie>
nephele, the render thing? because you recognise that?
<nephele>
rendering checkboxes intersects with the rendering of "native" system controls, and their variants
<Habbie>
right
<nephele>
I usually hack around in that area
<Habbie>
ok, i'll try to remember. i only have a bit of spare time today and now i can't log in ;)
<Habbie>
next up: finding a password manager i like that works on haiku
<nephele>
PulkoMandy: Now wondering if the template data, what setting has what type, and what allowed values, can be nicely saved in a BMessage, or if that should be somehow data in the class itself
<Habbie>
ah, 'pass' is in depot, nice
<nephele>
ideally I guess really a BMessage we can construct after some scheme to easily add more settings?
<nephele>
Habbie: we have our own store, but no native UI yet :/
<Habbie>
i noticed when configuring wifi
<Habbie>
and.. a matrix client maybe?
<nephele>
matrix :(
<nephele>
why don't you come to the xmpp sprint in 2 weeks Habbie? :)
<Habbie>
uh, do tell me more, although i likely won't be there
<nephele>
it's in berlin, and it's in qutie a cool place
<nephele>
the offices of wikimedia germany :P
<nephele>
from 23 to 25
<Habbie>
and what -is- it?
<nephele>
you mean xmpp?
<Habbie>
oh, no
<nephele>
or what a sprint is?
<Habbie>
is it 'xmpp people' 'xmpp haiku people'
<Habbie>
i know all these words
<Habbie>
just not what the event is
<nephele>
Well, I met pulkomandy there last year, but this year it will probably just be me for Haiku
<Habbie>
those would increase my odds but likely not to a useful p ;)
<nephele>
You can help me with Renga ;)
<Habbie>
hehe
<Habbie>
surprised to see no Snikket on the page
<Habbie>
(which i'm not just saying to show you i know all of these words ;) )
<nephele>
Renga can do interesting things in the future
<Habbie>
as for matrix, i only have it because FOSDEM uses it, and it's convenient for pasting images to irc
<nephele>
for example, show you past messsages in direct chats ;)
<Habbie>
although the URLs are horrendous
<nephele>
The URLs people post in PostmarketOS channels don't even work for IRC
<nephele>
and fwiw XMPP works the same way
<nephele>
(but nicer urls)
<Habbie>
oh there's bridges there too?
<nephele>
wdym?
<nephele>
bridges to irc?
<Habbie>
yes
<nephele>
sure, check the topic
<Habbie>
ah, nice
<Habbie>
and there's no native haiku matrix client, right
<nephele>
or roll your own. or use one from your server, unlike matrix its really no biggy to have multiple xmpp bridges... :)
<Habbie>
why no biggy compared to matrix?
<nephele>
No, there isn't. But I'm in Quaternions credits if that helps xD
<nephele>
because matrix doesn't do well with bridging
<Habbie>
ah
<Habbie>
ok, well, you have my interest
<Habbie>
but the travel won't work out i think
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<Habbie>
while we're offtopic on the topic, what xmpp server software do you recommend? prosody?
<nephele>
Amsterdam<-> Berlin always has a direct ICE
<Habbie>
oh yes
<Habbie>
it even stops closer to my house than that
<Habbie>
but the train is the least of my problems
<Habbie>
'not being at home' is also part of travel
<nephele>
How so?
<nephele>
ah
<Habbie>
this is not a problem for you to fix
<Habbie>
:)
<Habbie>
then there's tickets and hotels, which cost money, which i have, but i do try to spend it wisely
<nephele>
As for server software, i don't really have a clue, is hould get into that. Last sprint i asked disroot nicely to get an account to use for development, and that worked fine
<Habbie>
understood
<nephele>
I know one prominent software uses lua, i would probably use that because I am quite good with lua
<Habbie>
prosody is lua :)
<nephele>
ah :)
<Habbie>
i am also quite good with lua
<Habbie>
ok, this moves a couple of things on my long list up a bit
<nephele>
Well, for acomodations one could potentially works something out, though I can understand if you don't want to for other reasons :)
<Habbie>
(install an xmpp server, etc.)
<Habbie>
oh yes
<Habbie>
i have a few friends in Berlin too
<Habbie>
but these are all secondary problems
<Habbie>
i already travel too much
<nephele>
I have a computer on my desk here that is waiting for me to install my email server on it before i start with xmpp xD
<Habbie>
hehehe
<nephele>
and that is already something i push around
<Habbie>
priorities
<Habbie>
but, I think I'll have a look at Renga at some point
<nephele>
I was insane enough to use my *own* CA for my mail server, so now i have to set my clock backwards to check my email
<Habbie>
what was i doing. oh yes, passwords. that's for tomorrow
<nephele>
except on haiku of course
<Habbie>
hahaha
<Habbie>
why 'of course'?
<nephele>
because that doesn't check cert validaty at all...)
<Habbie>
lol
<nephele>
I was really amazed when i figured that out, it checks if your cert has *A* root, but doesn'
<nephele>
this is only the email client btw. anything that uses BSecureSocket is fine...
<Habbie>
anyway. working on haiku appears to be the ultimate yak shaving source
<Habbie>
last year i did a bunch of haikuports work, but mostly over ssh
<nephele>
anyway, apart from all that, if you do change your mind you can ping me, because i got suckered into a wiki account there aswell :)
<Habbie>
and this year i'm learning that the work that haiku needs to get to release is not the stuff you notice via ssh
<nephele>
Besdies that though, getting Renga to be a Really good xmpp client is one goal i have, i want it to be fast and the goto thing for comms on Haiku
<Habbie>
yeah, nice, makes sense
<nephele>
it's already much faster than most matrix clients i know, and with a fraction of the ressources
<Habbie>
matrix is not light
<nephele>
there is a new group chat spec for xmpp on the horizon
<Habbie>
what's the tl;dr compared to what xmpp has now?
<nephele>
for matrix?
<nephele>
or the groupchats?
<Habbie>
for groupchats
<Habbie>
i'm pretty sure xmpp has group chats today?
<nephele>
yes, well severall in theory
<Habbie>
of course ;)
<nephele>
the *next* big thing was MIX group chats, but that has seen only bad adoption, and is incompatible with the current still popular MUC
<nephele>
gc3 will iirc have persistent room membership, so no more of that autojoin on client start stuff
<nephele>
and the rest i don't quite recall, but it's not formalized yet :)
<Habbie>
oh gpg has nice defaults today. straight to 25519
<Habbie>
nephele, ack ):
<Habbie>
oops. :)
<nephele>
but i'm excited about it, improving group chats is a nice target. If there is anyone who knows about it at the sprint i can start implemtning it
<nephele>
other than that openpgp for xmpp is interesting, that gives a bit worse security than omemo, but at the cost of vastly easier key management for laymens
<Habbie>
oh i bet
<Habbie>
i was making a gpg key for my passwords now :)
<Habbie>
and i am again noticing that not having a working golang system on haiku is sad
<nephele>
golang stuff on linux usually seems quite solid once it is compiled
<nephele>
gives the same "rock" feeling C code gives
<nephele>
not mushy and interpreted xD
<Habbie>
yes
<Habbie>
i don't like the language
<Habbie>
i do like a lot of software written in it
<Habbie>
in this case, i miss gopass :)
<nephele>
I like ripgrep and fd-find, happy that those tools exist. Still wouldn't write in rust xDD
<nephele>
s/DD/D/g
<Habbie>
i use ripgrep all day
<nephele>
I frequently on new haikus do stuff like "rg <something>"
<nephele>
and then
<nephele>
pkgman install cmd:rg
<Habbie>
hehe
<Habbie>
i clearly typed 'pkgman install ripgrep' on this haiku earlier
<Habbie>
(coming from debian, i'm not used to cmd:, although i do remember to use it on alpine)
<Habbie>
(and then i use openwrt master, which has apk now, but no cmd:, and my PR for fixing that is slowly withering)
<nephele>
debian not having this bites me constantly
<Habbie>
yeah
<nephele>
also, debian has so much stuff installed
<Habbie>
it really is an outlier
<Habbie>
nephele, except bc!
<nephele>
lol
<Habbie>
(you remember)
<nephele>
I tried using gnome on my tablet, and it was really slow and sluggish, turned out it was the RAM that was full
<Habbie>
gnome is very decent on this 4gb chromebook
<nephele>
and that was like 400MB taken by shit like Gnome Software doing *something* in the background when not beeing asked to
<Habbie>
the one i am now doing my first non-ports haiku stuff on
<nephele>
and countless other daemons and services running "just in case"
<Habbie>
oh yeah gnome package kit is monstrous
<nephele>
like colord running "just in case", if a printer needs calibration or soemthing?
<nephele>
why does this run all the time and eats my ram?
<Habbie>
yesterday i was wondering why my haiku was at 5% cpu all the time
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<Habbie>
you're going to love the answer
<Habbie>
it was the cpu graph replicant
<nephele>
You can play around with the polling frequency
<nephele>
it will make the cpu go higher if you do it more frequently
<Habbie>
yeah i think i put it to 1s now
<Habbie>
was very clear to play with that and see it showing how much it was hurting me at various rates
<nephele>
I actually wonder if events that are on timers in different apps on the OS are synchronized or not
<nephele>
if they are you could minimize cpu wakeup, could be interesting
<Habbie>
like DVB-H or wifi 6
<Habbie>
but yes, agreed
<nephele>
Don't quite understand that reference, please elaborate :)
<Habbie>
ok, do you know DVB-T?
<nephele>
the TV signal?
<Habbie>
yes, the wireless one
<nephele>
I know it, but not how it works exactly
<Habbie>
DVB-T packs a bunch of channels into one big stream of bits
<Habbie>
your box listens full time, picks out, say, 10-30% of the bits (this varies! if the football is very active but the soap opera is not, they trade space!), decodes them
<Habbie>
DVB-H is the variant for mobile viewers
<Habbie>
it goes 'I am going to transmit the bits for you for 0.2 seconds, and then be quiet for 0.8'
<Habbie>
that gives you 80% radio idle
<Habbie>
then there's wifi 6
<Habbie>
which people find interesting for data rate
<Habbie>
and, incidentally, higher data rate is lower radio power per second
<Habbie>
but wifi 6 also allows stations (clients) and APs to agree on time slots
<Habbie>
and clients can literally decide to then not listen for a while
<Habbie>
because they know when their next packet (if there is one) will come
<nephele>
very cool
<Habbie>
yes
<Habbie>
anyway, i see why combining wakeups is cool
<Habbie>
that said, this chromebook that cost me one bottle of wine appears to last around 4 hours on haiku -while compiling-
<Habbie>
so i might not even miss the complete lack of suspend support in haiku
<nephele>
that's not too bad honestly
<nephele>
I wonder if we even need suspend
<Habbie>
well, some people like to suspend for days or weeks
<Habbie>
in which case spending a few seconds reloading memory from disk probably is fine
<nephele>
You know, native classes can archive and unarchive, so if you want to suspend (to disk), you can archive the app, and then unarchive it when you want to run it next
<Habbie>
yeah
<Habbie>
boot is quite a lot faster than linux too i think here
<nephele>
depends on your hardware
<nephele>
you better not plug in any sdcards :P
<Habbie>
i thought those didn't work at all
<nephele>
huh?
<nephele>
sure they do
<Habbie>
ah. my eMMC doesn't work and a conversation here led me to believe the same was true for SD
<Habbie>
i haven't tried
<nephele>
I've used SD cards on Haiku plenty of times, but only ones up to like 16GB or something
<Habbie>
right
<Habbie>
i solved my eMMC problems (1. no worky in haiku 2. it is small) with a 256GB usb3 stick that is very tiny
<Habbie>
it is as fast as the eMMC too
<nephele>
Say, why is there no type_code that represents a type_code?
<Habbie>
so that's what haiku is on now
<nephele>
I sometimes install haiku to usb if i am too lazy to install a hard drive
<nephele>
even usb2 installs are quite useable
<Habbie>
i realised quite recently that doing anything on usb2, especially with the cheap sticks i have lying around, is a waste of my time
<Habbie>
but
<Habbie>
once booted (takes a bit!), haiku was indeed quite usable on the cheap usb2 sticks
<nephele>
Not something you want to permanently use, but miles and miles better than any live linux i ever tried from usb2
<Habbie>
grml was okay ;)
<nephele>
Not something I've heard of till now
<nephele>
I imagine alpine linux would be fine too, especially with run from ram mode
<Habbie>
yeah
<nephele>
hmm, can i use B_ANY_TYPE to just store something in a setting... hmm
<nephele>
I wonder how to properly store my schema
<Habbie>
ok, i need to sleep. alarm clock at 6:30
<nephele>
Have a good night Habbie :)
<Habbie>
you too!
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<cameron>
Hey everyone...quick question. Is anyone running under qemu with virtio-vga-gl? I downloaded r1beta5 and it works fine, but doing a build from master (and r1beta5 branch) I get an error in the qemu console saying "Failed to create fence sync object". My build works fine with virtio-vga though.
<cameron>
I wanted to try a build from the same commit as the r1beta5 I downloaded but I'm not sure which commit that was built from.
<cameron>
Right, so I tried from the head of that branch and had the same issue. So I was hoping to try to build from the same commit that the build I downloaded was from.
<cameron>
So I can see if its something about my builds thats not working with vitio-vga-gl, or if there was a change.
<nephele>
okay, you can check the about system box, the + NNN number indicated the number of commits since the last hrev still in the beta5 branch
<cameron>
Oh, great thanks!
<nephele>
so hrev57937 is the last hrev tagged commit in the beta5 branch
<nephele>
and you have to count up the commits from there
<nephele>
but, other thougt, you could also update your vm image, and then see if this still occurs
<nephele>
If it then still does not occur with the prebuild there is some difference between your build and the buildserver
<cameron>
Yeah good idea
<nephele>
if the issue now does occur you have a range of commits you can check
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<cameron>
OK cool so the build I downloaded was hrev57937+113. I'll see what I can figure out from here thanks for the pointers!