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<scanty>
good morning, good afternoon, good evening, and good night :-)
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<scanty>
grr, just lost 58 day uptime from KDL. :-(
<gordonjcp>
aww
<gordonjcp>
that's pretty good for Haiku though ;-)
<Begasus[m]>
'lo scanty gordonjcp
<Begasus[m]>
trying to set a record scanty ? :)
<gordonjcp>
Begasus[m]: hiya
<scanty>
Begasus[m]: yeah, I was going for 60 days
<scanty>
almost made it!
<Begasus[m]>
bugger :)
<scanty>
yeah
<Begasus[m]>
nice, build fix for clazy upstreamed :)
<bjorkintosh>
scanty: what caused it to fail?
<scanty>
i was deleting a file on fat partition, and it blew up
<bjorkintosh>
how?
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<scanty>
i dont' know, tracker just froze up for a while, and then KDL
<scanty>
smoke, bbiab
<Begasus[m]>
smoke .... still here :)
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<scanty>
haha
<scanty>
i don't wish my room to smell of cigarette smoke, so outside it is.\
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<bjorkintosh>
well, if it's okay for your lungs, your nose should be okay with it too!
<scanty>
i'm just not ready to quit at this time.
<bjorkintosh>
quitting is for losers!
<bjorkintosh>
but, I digress.
<scanty>
bjorkintosh: what's with the portmanteau-nick? do you like bjork, and apple computers?
<bjorkintosh>
I b0rked an old mac se when a windows NT book fell off the bookshelf while I had the mac open.
<bjorkintosh>
I happen to think I'm bjork's biggest fan ... :-D
<bjorkintosh>
that old mac was where my irc client was running
<scanty>
i see.
<bjorkintosh>
in memory of it... I retain this.
<scanty>
i remember some of bjork's old stuff, but i can't say i have heard anything recent.
<bjorkintosh>
there's new work. she likes to explore genres and isn't afraid to abandon old fans.
<scanty>
i see. i remember her from the late nineties.
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<scanty>
she was a litte... strange for that time.
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<gordonjcp>
bjorkintosh: I quite like Bjork, and indeed The Sugarcubes, and I'm pleased to discover my son is a fan too
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<WoC>
speaking of fat, had a few floppies back in the day, when you tried to copy all the files from them, you would run out of disk space ;)
<bjorkintosh>
hear, hear! gordonjcp.
<WoC>
recursive hard-links, manual hack
<WoC>
fun things in dos...
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* Begasus[m]
should still have those Win95 floppies around
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<tetrislife>
Hi. I have Haiku installed bare-metal on an old Intel Macbook. It didn't like my current laptop hardware, particularly Ethernet but not just that. Is anybody running Haiku on KVM?
<phschafft>
I have some old version of Haiku in a kvm/qemu VM and also it in qemu for like forever.
<phschafft>
network works fine, I have some problem with the keyboard, but I was told that this might be fixed and/or a problem of my specific setup.
<Begasus[m]>
using VMWare on Windows once in a while
<Begasus[m]>
kallisti5 (@kallisti5:matrix.org) not sure if you did anything, but they are running atm :)
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<tetrislife>
phschafft: thanks
<kallisti5[m]>
I didn't do anything, but glad they're back
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<phschafft>
:)
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<tetrislife>
From the outside, I do wonder why Haiku should bother with device drivers beyond virtualization. Is running on KVM/bhyve/vmx with multiple CPU's assigned to the VM not performant enough w.r.t I/O, graphics, etc.?
<zdykstra>
because people want to run a real OS on real hardware?
<phschafft>
I use full desktop virualisation since pentium II.
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<phschafft>
I must say that I wonder the same question for many systems.
<tetrislife>
zdykstra: is that from an expectation of faster I/O, graphics, etc.?
<phschafft>
some kind of hypervisor that provides the drivers and then just basic systems.
<tetrislife>
phschafft: I didn't get that. Do you run Linux deesktop on Linux qemu/KVM?
<zdykstra>
if you exclusively virtualize your entire OS, you've abdicated control of critical things to someone else
<zdykstra>
that seems short-sighted at best
<phschafft>
tetrislife: I run any kind of OS, not just linux based. in virtualisation. Debian is mostly used for the hypervisor, but it is as exchangeable to me as the guests.
<phschafft>
zdykstra: not sure about that.
<phschafft>
I mean, there is no reason to only support one virtualisation technology.
<phschafft>
even if you have drivers for 20 of them, you will end up with less drivers than trying to support all desktop hardware that is around.
<phschafft>
as I said, the hypervisor is an exchangeable component.
<tetrislife>
zdykstra: in some sense, that is true for bare-metal Haiku too - control of device drivers rests with FreeBSD?
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<phschafft>
specifically as it is 'never' seen by the user, it can be replaced freely.
<tetrislife>
FreeBSD the project, I mean.
<zdykstra>
control doesn't rest with FreeBSD; they can be hard forked if necessary. It's harder / borderline impossible for a small project like Haiku to fork an entire hypervisor - especially since by it's very nature it's not even running in Haiku.
<phschafft>
but that is in no way needed.
<tetrislife>
Does Haiku's microkernel have an interesting device driver approach too?
<zdykstra>
I get the argument you're both making - I just am of the opinion that once you give up targeting real hardware, you've checked out and you might as well give up making an OS.
<phschafft>
zdykstra: to me it is the other way around: trying to support hardware is binding so many resources that could be spend otherwise.
<phschafft>
so if you target real hardware you can just give up making an OS.
<tetrislife>
Strong opinions, both!
<phschafft>
not my opinion, just mirroring the argument.
<tetrislife>
I too was wondering about wastage of time porting drivers. I guess having the FreeBSD portability layer avoids that time wastage, and still gives you native drivers.
<tetrislife>
What's not to like!
<tetrislife>
Just to round it off, I guess it isn't a Linux portability layer to avoid the GPL? Forced into giving up even better hardware support?
<tetrislife>
Just to round it off, I guess it isn't a Linux portability layer in order to avoid the GPL? Forced into giving up even better hardware support?
<phschafft>
clearly such a layer will improve the situation, but one could also consider it virtualisation ;)
<phschafft>
all that said, time for dinner it seems.
<tetrislife>
Ah, why would an indirection of 1 function call be comparable to virtualization?
<Begasus[m]>
closing down here, cu peeps
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<zdykstra>
seeya Begasus[m] !
* scanty
admires Begasus[m]'s ability to schedule.
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<bjorkintosh>
scanty: might be a timer of sorts!
<zdykstra>
bjorkintosh: I flew through Iceland yesterday. It seemed fitting to put on Bjork while we landed.
<zdykstra>
Listened straight through Post, Homogenic and Telegram
<bjorkintosh>
hahah. great.
<scanty>
perhaps.
<zdykstra>
possibly maybe
<bjorkintosh>
Verspertine is one of my favorites.
<scanty>
but if i'm working on something, it's hard to just stop. and then pick up the next day.
<zdykstra>
big fan of her early stuff (pre-2000's) and then Biophilia
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