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<nipos>
nephele: For https://review.haiku-os.org/c/haiku/+/9385 there's no simpler way instead of writing be_plain_font->GetHeight() to a variable and using that to calculate the window height,right?If so,that would mean it can't be done in the window constructor because I have to set the variable first :/
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<nipos>
Not sure what I should think about it.If you like Haiku,why not just use Haiku rather than making any other system look and behave as if it were Haiku?
<PulkoMandy>
Cosmoe started before Haiku and inherits from AtheOS. So, why did people start Haiku instead?
<PulkoMandy>
Different goals, different approaches, same love for BeOS, and a lot of shared code
<phschafft>
the page is 90% random stock template?
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<phschafft>
nipos: ignoring what PulkoMandy said for a second here: just because you like something doesn't mean it solves your problems. so for some people 'just use Haiku' might just not be an option.
<phschafft>
sadly that group includes me. :(
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<PulkoMandy>
If Haikuwas perfect I would not spend a lot of time debugging and improving it :)
<phschafft>
it is clearly impressiv.
<phschafft>
and that is thanks to so many hours people put into it.
<phschafft>
but even if perfect, it might just be the wrong tool ;)
<nipos>
Sure,Haiku isn't perfect,neither is Linux or any other operating system
<nipos>
I prefer Haiku for desktop use,but I still have to use FreeBSD or OpenIndiana (Solaris) rather often.My goal is to have everything on Haiku some day,only my servers will stay FreeBSD
* phschafft
nods.
<phschafft>
I sometimes wish it would be easier for me to contribute some code.
<nipos>
Yeah,it's sometimes hard and frustrating to get stuff done and merged,especially considering I'm still a beginner at C++ (having done many years of web development before I discovered Haiku)
<matthewcroughan1>
<nipos> "Not sure what I should think..." <- Can the applications also be compiled to run on Haiku? Or is it Linux only?
<nipos>
There's no point in running it on Haiku.It's the Haiku UI toolkit ported to Linux,so you can run Haiku applications there
<matthewcroughan1>
Sorry, I don't understand that completely
<matthewcroughan1>
So that means there is no way to have one codebase that compiles the same Haiku UI application for Linux and Haiku at once?
<matthewcroughan1>
That's the value I'm expecting to get
<nipos>
Ah yes.You can compile existing Haiku applications to run on Linux using Cosmoe.I misunderstood your question
<matthewcroughan1>
Oh really, so Cosmoe is like a drop-in for the libs that would otherwise be missing?
<nipos>
Yes
<matthewcroughan1>
So if you attempted to compile a Haiku project on Linux, you'd succeed, up until the UI bits, in which case you need to provide Cosmoe?
<nipos>
At least that's what they're trying to do.I don't know if it already works and if there are missing pieces
<matthewcroughan1>
Just want a yes or a no there so I can understand better
<matthewcroughan1>
If yes, that's great, it makes a lot of sense
<matthewcroughan1>
This means I can make nice guis on linux, where I live, and then use them on Haiku :)
<tetrislife>
This is encouraging info. Thanks.
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<erysdren>
i don't really care for Wayland
<erysdren>
i'd like Cosmoe better if i could do the same but with X11
<nipos>
I uploaded one change to Gerrit before setting up the Change-Id hook on my laptop.Does anyone know if/how I can push a modification to this change?
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<jmairboeck>
nipos: you can add the Change-Id manually to the commit message at the end
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<psionic>
is eggdrop runs fine on haiku?
<Habbie>
i don't know, but i would guess yes
<bjorkintosh>
psionic: what does egg drop need to run?
<Habbie>
it's in Tcl and C
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<nephele>
nipos: very cool whacking those hidpi things. :)
<nipos>
Yeah, finally trying to get some stuff done again. Haven't done anything on Haiku directly for too long.
<nephele>
I know you were a bit annoyed at the reviews before, feel free to provide feedback if that is still the case...
<nephele>
I wonder if Installer was written before BCardLayout existed, it seems like such a good candidate for it
<nipos>
It's understandable that you need to keep code quality good.Sometimes it's diffficult to understand what exactly is wrong with a change or what needs to be different
<nipos>
For example with the scrollbars,I don't really see why using be_control_look is bad,and BScrollBar::PreferredSize needs a scroll bar that already exists,but I need to know the size already when calling new BScrollBar so now idea how to solve that now
<nephele>
calling controlLook directly is "bad" in the sense that, the controlLook provides this value right. But the interface kit is the one "actually" doing decisions based on this
<nephele>
so in some instances the interface kit *could* decide that it wants a different scrollbar size despite what the controlLook suggests
<nephele>
and in the end this is a bit of an implementation detail that it is in the controlLook, while the BScrollBar with it's prefered size is actually in the "proper" user facing api
<nipos>
I understand what you mean,but how do I get the scrollbars PreferredSize *before* creating the BScrollBar?
<nephele>
Normally you would not need this size at all
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<nephele>
but you should get the idea from that, i think
<nipos>
I'll look at that again,but I'm not sure if it can always be avoided.For example Icon-O-Matic already uses the layout kit but has some custom ScrollView where the Scrollbar stuff needs to be done.
<nephele>
The solution to that is making the ScrollView work properly with the layout kit :) Any solution where you need to hardcode scrollbar sizes is at least suboptimal
<nephele>
it can't be avoided in some cases, sure, but for our "own" stuff this is almost never neccesary. Keep in mind that some stuff simply isn't all ported to the layout kit code yet, or not completely, so it might need some work in that direction
<nephele>
note also that the layout kit way to make menus is uhh, undocumented... i figured out how it works, but i also failed to write documentation. so i should probably do that
<nipos>
There's quite a lot stuff that's still undocumented.For example there seems to be no documentation for ControlLook in the Haiku Book at all (or at least I couldn't find it)
<nephele>
There should be some documentation on how to write one in the future, but if that is done i still don't think most user apps should rely on it unless they have a very very specific usecase
<nephele>
like actually drawing your gui yourself. e.g qt port and webkit
<Habbie>
our favourite spammer now got klined from oftc
<nephele>
huh?
<Habbie>
we had a rude user in here until yesterday
<nephele>
"Habbie is snitching around." oh wow
<Habbie>
until finally somebody banned them from this channel, but network staff did not pick up on it yet (they did get klined from libera yesterday)
<Habbie>
yep
<nephele>
I wasn't around otherwise i could have used my ops bit for the first time xD
<Habbie>
hehe
<Habbie>
wait you have ops? i looked at the list and did not spot you
<nephele>
Well, I have the permission to ask for ops from chanserv in each channel registered to like the haiku group in oftc
<Habbie>
ah! i see now. I only got the group 'masters' yesterday. group members is a bigger list :)
<scanty>
two days, two heisenbugs, same code.
<nephele>
huh. chanserv has an "url" field for channel info
<nephele>
why does chanserv have an unban command but not a ban one
<nephele>
i should look for some oftc docs... i don't know how i would even ban someone if needed xD
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<Habbie>
there's always 'op' and then /kb or /ban
<Habbie>
UNBAN in chanserv is only for yourself
<nephele>
Habbie: your tool yesterday seems interesting. I wonder if we can also do some whacky hijinx with *without installing* smuggeling a bootloader into the ESP from windows, setting bootnext to that, and having it boot from a file on the ntfs partition
<nephele>
so you don't actually install haiku on anything but can test it out
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<Habbie>
nephele, i realise i also don't know how to ban via chanserv
<Habbie>
as for my tool, it never actually managed to boot haiku for me, but building it allowed me to debug a bunch of things
<Habbie>
a loadlin-like tool would be feasible with some more work
<Habbie>
'boot from a file' is an interesting one. are you thinking 'run from ramdisk entirely'?
<nephele>
pretty much
<Habbie>
ok
<Habbie>
simpler than actually writing back i guess
<nephele>
or well, "RO" file backed storage so you can evict a bit if you want
<Habbie>
less simple, but also better
<Habbie>
pity you can't fit the whole haiku into the average ESP
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<nephele>
if you have a classic 4GB ram machine and the haiku image is 1.2GB (<1GB required for operation) you still have 3 gb to play around with
<nephele>
you might be able to if you cut it down a lot. i've seen esps that are 1Gb or 500MB
<Habbie>
haiku-nightly-anyboot is 659MB here
<Habbie>
yeah my ESPs tend to be large too, but the real question is what MS does by default
<nephele>
that's still optimizable, for example removing all artwork, the suplementary bootloaders, some software etc...
<Habbie>
sure
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<nekobot>
• pulkomandy (b53a4f74): SmallerC: new recipe
<nekobot>
• pulkomandy (02a90de5): dosemu: even more things integrated upstream
<nekobot>
• pulkomandy (6a72b8a5): djstub: new recipe
<Habbie>
nephele, anyway, i'm not sure my work there is helpful for that ESP thing you have in mind, but it's a fun idea
<nephele>
Habbie: eventually Haiku will be like a proper virus
<Habbie>
hehe
<nephele>
the installer is already easy enough for that
<nephele>
some summer storm cools the temps a bit here
<nephele>
makes it more bearable
<nipos>
I hoped for cooler temperatures here too,but wetter.de still reports 23C right now and the forecasted storm is cancelled.Only "light rain possible" tomorrow :/
<Habbie>
23C is colder than my house
<nephele>
hmm, i wonder if i should put my luanti/minetest game on the haiku forum if i have the next version finished
<nephele>
too bad luanti runs so badly on haiku
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<nephele>
why does codeberg have a watch repo button, but the view for my projects i care about only has a favorited repos list
<nephele>
okay, the list of things you *watch* is way too hard to find. First time ever i want to add a bookmark to webpositive
<nephele>
for some reason i can't get the bookmark bar to show up now, ugh
<Habbie>
nephele, please leave some fun for the rest of us
<nipos>
Speaking of WebPositive,is there anything happening related to WebKit2 recently?
<nephele>
Habbie: ?
<Habbie>
nephele, a joke, clearly not a good one
<nephele>
nipos: I've not worked on it in the last couple of weeks, i think the state is mostly unchanged
<nipos>
It seemed like it would be almost working a few months ago,but I haven't heard much since then
<nephele>
do you want to know something specific?
<nipos>
No,that codebase is too complicated for me to help anyway.But I'd really like to see it happen
<nephele>
well, it's still "almost" working... Just that it works quite badly still with not everything hooked up, after all the input and rendering stuff is done we need to improve the new native api among other things :)
<nephele>
Still think the codebase is not too hard. For example the code to fix rendering issues i fixed for some rendering of controlls is effectively similar to what the controllook code would do for example
<nephele>
nipos: mostly have also been stopped a bit because of my computer constantly breaking... and the replacement i have has that wierd crashing issue with the processors (haiku specific one)
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<nipos>
Ahhh,you have one of the old AMDs,that's frustrating.Have the same thing.Luckily I also have a powerful Intel gaming laptop now where I can do the hard compile tasks
<nephele>
well, my "powerfull" other pc has major issues with the gpu which means it works very very badly on linux
<nephele>
which is dumb since i got the gpu mainly, of course, for games
<nephele>
I guess i could try yet-another even weaker board i have around here, but i for sure won't get 4k out of that, because it has a 32bit efi...
<nephele>
(and we don't have a 32bit efi loader to boot 64bit haiku i think?=
<nephele>
maybe one of these acer boards would work
<nipos>
If you tell me some specific things to do (and pointers where to look for them),I can probably look into WebKit.Ideally you can send me a direct message in the forum with a list of a few easy tasks and I can try to get stuff done,but I can't promise anything.
<PulkoMandy>
I am slowly upstreaming changes to webkit repo, rebasing and making sure our webkit2 port still "works" (can render a webpage, but mouse support is broken so you can't scroll or click on anything)
<PulkoMandy>
So, 90% done, now let's do the other 90%
<nephele>
I think my keyboard patch is still not there, right? i need to figure that out again. but it's been quite some time .-.
<nephele>
also figure out how to use distcc so i can atleast use the compile power of the "broken" pc
<nephele>
PulkoMandy: Can you upstream one additional thing? I had the commit for light/dark mode image document support (or more specifically to use document colors)
<nephele>
That was stuck on bugzilla, but that avenue seems no longer available to upstream, the only critique left was that they wanted an additional different test iirc :)
<PulkoMandy>
I think bugzilla is still ok. But even on github I have to ask specific people to review changes usually (aperezdc is interested in haiku and usually reviews things)
<nephele>
One guy from igalia i talked with on slack, but that slack thing removed my joined status at some point (i guess because i didn't open the app often enough) so that chat is gnoe unfortunately :/
<PulkoMandy>
Anyway, only little time for this so for now I try to upstream our changes by one small piece at a time (easier for reviews)
<nephele>
the change is a 1 line change basially just adding a css value to ImageDocument, and in addition to that a test to validate this. I think you may be right that bugzilla is still "ok", but i don't remember how that works, and all documentation dissapeared for that :)
<PulkoMandy>
Also using a not great setup where I do all the buildind and testing at home, but I do the upstreaming from work during lunchbreaks, on a different machine
<PulkoMandy>
Not really in a position to play proxy for other people here... enough things to do with my own problems already...
<nephele>
Crazy setup. I'm assuming because of not beeing able to use github at home? :)
<nephele>
Anyway, that's alright, i'll see if i can get into bugzilla again. maybe check on the web archive for docs...
<nephele>
nipos: for easy task/pointers, the bug tracker is probably easier. If you see something in components/webkit and want more info on how it could be solved you can ask a question on the ticket and i can add some more details if i know stuff about it
<PulkoMandy>
No problem with github, why would I not be able to use it?
<nephele>
i recall you mentioning not beeing able to use it at home because of a 2fa tied to your work.
<nephele>
but maybe that is outdated or incorrect info now :)
<PulkoMandy>
I copied the key on my home machine now. That wasjust a temporary problem, solved as soon as I had access to the work machine to get the key
<PulkoMandy>
(And compile some otp implementation for haiku)
<nipos>
The webkit tickets are mostly about WebKit 1,no?
<nephele>
ah okay. I had assumed this would be some kind of challenge response key
<nephele>
nipos: we can tag them as webkit2 if we need the distinction i think
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<PulkoMandy>
The problem with upstreaming is more that I have to handle two copies of webkit, lots of branch checkout and rebasing and manually copying cqanges from one to another. Easier to do on the powerful work laptop running linux with 3 displays than at home :)
<nephele>
haha, i can imagine :)
<nipos>
That doesn't answer my question.Is the stuff reported there in any way relevant for getting Webkit 2 to work properly?
<PulkoMandy>
A lot of the problems are in webcore, it doesn't matter if using webkit1 or webkit2 apis
<nipos>
Ah ok
<PulkoMandy>
Switching to webkit2 will not magically fix everything
<nephele>
If you mean in the sense of getting webkit 2 running itself, not directly reported i think. But most issues there are just as relevant to both apis
<nephele>
for example all listed drawing bugs should be independant of the api
<PulkoMandy>
But webkit2 specific problems are probably not reported. It's just "the mouse doesn't work" currently
<PulkoMandy>
That prevents doing much testing
<nephele>
huh? did you add my keyboard patch then?
<nephele>
i thought that also wasn't in tree yet
<nephele>
I thought mouse worked, but scrolling didn't and additionally showing what is focused or focusing eleemtns itself somehow didn't quite work... I should probably just compile the current state and investigate
<PulkoMandy>
Not sure I tried keyboard. If I can't focus a textfield, how would I try it?
<nephele>
but i'm not opposed to opening tickets for these if it makes colaborating easier
<nipos>
Is there a non-Github repo where I can create pull requests for my work?
<nephele>
you can get keyboard events from javascript
<nephele>
No, there is not. The moving stuff to codeberg forum topic is still relevant to this, but has not seen any activity recently :/
<PulkoMandy>
nipos: You can email me the patches, or just sstup a repo wherever you want, I'll figure out how to get them into github
<nephele>
I have permission from disroot to host a webkit copy there though
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<PulkoMandy>
If you wait for "the forum" to do it, nothing will happen
<nephele>
but atleast for the project no "official" fork :)
<PulkoMandy>
Just push things to codeberg
<nephele>
PulkoMandy: i don't quite understand what you mean? i thought we wanted to migrate all things to codeberg in one go? I didn't want to break that consensus
<nephele>
I also don't have access to the haiku org on codeberg
<PulkoMandy>
then it will never happen
<nipos>
Wait,the move to Codeberg was finally agreed on? :D
<PulkoMandy>
Just set up your own webkit fork on codeberg and put changes there
<PulkoMandy>
Who cares if it's official?
<PulkoMandy>
And when everyone isalready using codeberg, we can make it official
<nephele>
you confuse me. Last time we talked about this you argued against doing this for reasons of trust-of-source (since we don't establish trust by signing commits)
<PulkoMandy>
This is how it happened for github, there never was an agreement to make github an official thing
<nephele>
or well, i am confused more precisely
<PulkoMandy>
Heople just started to use it...
<PulkoMandy>
I don't think I said that, sounds like an argument some other haiku dev would make, but not me
<nipos>
I'm not sure if Codeberg is super happy about me uploading a 2.5GB repo that changes only one commit or two.Maybe it's better to just send you patchfiles then.
<nephele>
Considering we have an insider there we could just ask, but i doubt this is a problem
<nephele>
assuming you are fine with using the agit workflow nipos?
<PulkoMandy>
I am not really happy with patchfiles. You put the work on my side instead of yours
<nephele>
if you are happy with agit i will setup a codeberg webkit repo, and you can send your patches there nipos
<PulkoMandy>
(And the patches get lost, or I merge the wrong version or...)
<nipos>
agit workflow is the Gerrit style,correct?Then I'm fine with it,yes
<nephele>
PulkoMandy can then "just" add the relevant remote to fetch the file
<nephele>
oh wow. I have a much nicer idea. I will use my intel gpu (yes, one of those arc things :D) for the computer that has constant gpu problems... and use the *other* board for the high-end gpu
<nephele>
hah, i can just swap these boards, and one of them then becomes a haiku only machine
<gordonjcp>
given how easy it is to spin up gitea/forgejo et al, why would you bother?
<nephele>
I don't want to drown our sysadmin team
<nephele>
and doing it youself is annoying if you want to use it for colaboration in the "PR/code review" sense, because then you have to deal with accounts and account providers
<gordonjcp>
just use SSO
<gordonjcp>
okay so then you've got to work out something that everyone's happy with
<nephele>
sure. Can you figure out what we need to do to make this work?
<gordonjcp>
yeah
<gordonjcp>
I'm up to my eyes in it this week
<nephele>
we have our SSO, but i can't login to pulkomandys gerrit with it. and neither of us has any idea what needs to be done by whom to make this work :)
<gordonjcp>
I have to switch off the 999 lines for about half of Scotland and about 1/3 of the population for several hours
<gordonjcp>
so that's taking up a bit of my brainwidth right now
<gordonjcp>
but give me a shout the back end of this week
<nephele>
oh wow. tinkering with those lines sounds like a quite important task
<gordonjcp>
ye it's a bit of a headnip tbh
<gordonjcp>
I could do without it
<nipos>
I could also host a git server (forgejo or whatever) on one of my dedicated servers,but I'd prefer moving to Codeberg instead.Again,it's probably fine to host this as the Haiku organization.I just don't want to waste so much storage for a personal fork that is of no bigger interest to the community
<gordonjcp>
nipos: sure
<gordonjcp>
nipos: I could spin you up an account on forgejo that I run, if that helps
<Habbie>
internally, github puts forks in the same storage as the upstream repo
<Habbie>
gitlab does not do this
<nephele>
forgejo does this if you use the agit workflow
<nipos>
Do you know if forgejo does it?
<Habbie>
i was just going to say "i don't know if forgejo .." :)
<nipos>
+1 for agit then
<nephele>
kallisti5[m]: can you add me to the haiku group in codeberg?
<nephele>
nipos: do you also have an account at disroot?
<nipos>
Not on their Forgejo yet,but nothing prevents me from registering there.They even offer SSO using Codeberg,but I prefer keeping accounts separate.
<nephele>
disroot has one account for everything, and manual aproval
<nephele>
if you don't have one there yet i'd stick with codeberg for now
<PulkoMandy>
nephele: I know what needs to be done for using haiku's sso with my gerrit, but it means asking haiku admin to generateme a token so my gerrit can register with it, and I don't like it. I would prefer an openid style solution where anyone can use my gerrit with whatever account provider they have, without me having to set up something with the provider
<PulkoMandy>
Unfor unately it seems openid (old style, not the new openidconnect) is a bit dead with not many providers still running it
<nipos>
It's the standard Forgejo login page,no SSO.Also I think I used their Nextcloud in the past,but https://git.disroot.org/nipos doesn't exist
<nephele>
nipos: sso can be done by a plain database aswell