<nekobot>
• whsieh (d7a1e821): [Page color sampling] Extended top color should remain stable while scrolling…
<nekobot>
• philn (2e502580): [GStreamer] Build with telemetry enabled and without EME enabled broken…
<nekobot>
• rniwa (2f2e9617): Reduce header includes in Image.h…
<Aedil>
Hi.
<phschafft>
hm.
<phschafft>
morning.
<Begasus[m]>
hi Aedil phschafft
<phschafft>
all good?
<Begasus[m]>
yeah, talking to some KDE devs about Kig updated to Qt6 (build fixes) :)
<Begasus[m]>
well ECM fixes in the CmakeList.txt file
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<Aedil>
Begasus[m]: Good success in your doings.
<Begasus[m]>
Thanks Aedil :)
<Begasus[m]>
how's it going over there phschafft ?
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<Begasus[m]>
waddlesplash: checksum error again on nightly for haiku package
<phschafft>
oh fine fine, sorted some commits yesterday.
<phschafft>
hope I can implement a bit more stuff today.
<Begasus[m]>
+1
<Begasus[m]>
keeping up a good pase then :)
<Molnija>
humanity is cooked
<phschafft>
just wishing for a rubber duck.
<Begasus[m]>
heh
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<phschafft>
code loading code and stuff.
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<Begasus[m]>
Hola OscarL !
* OscarL
thinks: if humanity is really cooked, I'd like mine "well done". It can be pretty "raw" sometimes.
<OscarL>
Hello there Begasus[m] :-)
<Begasus[m]>
OscarL: what was up with LLVM12?
<OscarL>
just that it is the "default" in Haiku (due to mesa stuff).
<Begasus[m]>
nuke it and update the default? :P
<OscarL>
:-D. Even in that case... I think it would be cool if we could try to reduce the "spread" we currently have regarding LLVM versions dependencies.
<OscarL>
have packages depending on 20, 19, 18, 16, and 12, currently :-/
<Begasus[m]>
the ones I care about are already on llvm20 :)
<Begasus[m]>
at least here*
<OscarL>
I only see what's on repos.
<OscarL>
qt-creator is 20, while kdevelop is 18, for example.
<Begasus[m]>
yeah, but kdevelop in the repos hasn't been updated (due to qtwebengine)
<Begasus[m]>
got there here already on 20 (guess it should be fine to bump the one in the repo to that also)
<Begasus[m]>
but those concern clang (not libllvm directly)
<OscarL>
understood. in that case... can qt-creator work with 18? or is 20 a hard-requirement? (just using those projects as examples, I don't care which version we use, but would be nice to not have to requires so many different ones)
<OscarL>
for context...
<Begasus[m]>
I'd rather bump clang in kdevelop then revert the one for qtcreator
<OscarL>
I was trying to clean up the YCM recipe... which used >= 16, but apparently can work with anything that's newer than 7 (!) (if the docs I read are valid still).
<OscarL>
that got me trying to remove that >= 16, to maybe just let it depend on LLVM12 (as most users would already have that one).
<Begasus[m]>
trying to tackle that (has */include twice in that line, but only "fixed" the first one
<OscarL>
that reminded me again of the Genio and ">= 16".... and started tracking down packages for LLVM dependencies... and....
<Begasus[m]>
is anything still using clang12?
<OscarL>
picture was a bit depressing :-D
<Begasus[m]>
heh
<OscarL>
thing is... the llvm12_libs package seems to include lib:libclang (unlike newer packages that have it on _clang)
<OscarL>
on the bright side... nothing seems to require LLVM17 :-D (at least on the searchs I did)
<Begasus[m]>
libclang.so.12, so that shouldn't be a problem
<OscarL>
(I still need to test YCM against that to see if it actually works, to be clear.)
<Begasus[m]>
YCM still fine with clang >= 20
<Begasus[m]>
build*
<Begasus[m]>
how do I testrun this thing ?
<OscarL>
my issue is at install time... too easy to end up with 5 different LLVM versions.
<Begasus[m]>
no issue here
<Begasus[m]>
but then again, I already have 20 installed
<Begasus[m]>
lib:libclang >= 20.1.4
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<Begasus[m]>
from the package output
<OscarL>
if you try installing the one from depot... doesn't it tries to pull _clang 16 ?
<Begasus[m]>
sec
<OscarL>
(to see if YCM is working.... autocomplete should work for, say, .py or .cpp files you open with vim or gVim)
<Begasus[m]>
problem 1: package youcompleteme-20241216-1 requires lib:libclang>=16.0.6, but none of the providers can be installed
<Begasus[m]>
bugger :P
<OscarL>
that's the issue I'm talking about... you install, *from depot*, Genio, kdevelp, qt-creator, ccsls.... and you end up with 5 different llvm installed :-(
<Begasus[m]>
not familiar enough with vim
<Begasus[m]>
I've got 4 different poppler versions installed :P
<OscarL>
yeah... I always have a WTF?!?! moment everytime I try to test it :-)
<Begasus[m]>
k, genio through depot is fine when llvm20 is installed
<OscarL>
but if you don't have llvm20 already, it will pull 16.
<OscarL>
and then you install kdevelop, will get 18, ccsls (or it was classy?) and will pull 19
<OscarL>
then add qt-creator... :-D
<nephele>
OscarL: maybe this needs a graph visualizer
<nephele>
then you can see where the wierd deps are that could be consolidated
<Begasus[m]>
clazy probably OscarL
<OscarL>
nephele: what I neeed is an "exact mode" for "pkgman search" (instead of matching "start of string" requirements), and for "pkgman search -r" to show in a column the text that matched the query, with version constraints.
<Begasus[m]>
clang versions conflict, so you can only have one installed for those, so if you first install Genio, you'll get clang16, if you install kdevelop it will install clang18
<nephele>
good that you know python OscarL ;)
<OscarL>
added those to my WishiList-ToDo.txt already, but... packagekit code is hard.
<nephele>
hard, or unreasonable?
<OscarL>
written in an Enterprisey-style, I'd say.
<nephele>
damn, i knew star trek would come back to bite us
<OscarL>
way, way, way too many small classes. makes it really hard to understand for the likes of me.
<nephele>
if it's too complex and lacking docs, we should document it, and maybe simplify it...
<nephele>
but small classes are often just "objects" so you don't have to pass wierd strings around :D
<OscarL>
I mean... it works, and I can appreciate its quality. It is just... "Ufff" too read unless your brain is wired that way.
<Begasus[m]>
k, let's try kdevelop current one in the depot with clang20
<OscarL>
Begasus[m]: re: conflits leaving only one clang version installed. That's good... but still means you had to download and install different versions, possibly in a short period of time. I'd like to avoid that for sake of a better end-user experience.
<Begasus[m]>
atleast qtcreator/kdevelop/clazy and the likes should be on par OscarL
<OscarL>
(and to try to save on data costs for those on crappy internet :-D)
<OscarL>
good to hear!
<Begasus[m]>
I "could" push latest kdevelop, but that means disabling qtwebengine and hence documentation in there
<Begasus[m]>
maybe I should do a KF6 seperate package for testing purpose
<OscarL>
do we have any idea if Haiku plans to update its LLVM version requierment? and if so... to what version?
<Begasus[m]>
that's for the peeps like nephele :)
<nephele>
OscarL: not untill the next beta
<Begasus[m]>
after the next beta's release then?
<nephele>
and the version, i guess, at that point would be a version mesa runs fine with?
<Begasus[m]>
17? :)
<nephele>
i mean, the next beta will depend on a newer llvm. not after it
<OscarL>
maybe kallisti5[m] can chime in?
<OscarL>
Begasus[m]: funny guy!
<Begasus[m]>
ok, like with openssl3 then
<Begasus[m]>
:P OscarL
<OscarL>
wanna give me a stroke, don't ya.
<nephele>
OscarL: i don't think we can determine what version it will be till the next beta, which is still a bit off
<Begasus[m]>
I think LLVM20 has seen good progress
<nephele>
since if llvm20 breaks, and llvm19 works fine we will probably use llvm19 then....
<Begasus[m]>
OscarL: you said you missed one didn't you? :P
<Begasus[m]>
well, since it's only llvm_libs, it shouldn't be that big of a deal for haikuports
<OscarL>
welp. in any case, as with pythons... I think that making recipes target one common version would be already be an improvement (even if Haiku ends up needing a different one).
<OscarL>
we're already there with LLVM12 and 16.
<nephele>
I'd agree
<Begasus[m]>
I tend to make LLVM_clang defaulting to 20 for haikuports
<OscarL>
vm might work better if I plug in the USB-SSD :-/
<OscarL>
I just go with what "pkgman search -r {libclang,LLVM,etc}" reports back (and then I use "pkgman install" those to see what they try to pull down, and cancel)
<nephele>
apt has a "-s" flag to simulate operations. maybe this should be added to pkgman aswell
<nephele>
though i think we should get a better tool to inspect dependencies and stuff
<OscarL>
I have started writting a program that reuses .DependenciInfo files... with the intention of being able to query thing ("list all build dependents of X package version Y") without having to invoke haikuporter.
<OscarL>
too bad I suck at keeping focused :-)
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<Begasus[m]>
it doesnt tell me which clang it requires?
<OscarL>
no, thus the "wishlist" I mentioned earlier, and the "need" to attempt "fake installs" to figure that out.
<Begasus[m]>
hm .. my clazy is newer also then the one in the depot :P
<nephele>
OscarL: dividing work into small chunks that are manageable helps me
<OscarL>
its a good technique, yes. (it might work for me if I didn't ended up over-thinking how to better slipt things up :-D)
<OscarL>
in the end... tend to do work in small "bursts", the leaving stuff in the backburner for a month or a year...
<nephele>
i get distracted easily :)
<OscarL>
till I circle back to it and to another small bit. (or ocassionally "finish" it, as the TextSearch glob filter)
<nephele>
i should get like a contributor for my luanti game
<nephele>
that would probably help me be focused xD
<OscarL>
get your self an AI companion! /me ducks
<Begasus[m]>
lol
<Begasus[m]>
there's a good tutorial at haikuinsider for that :)
<nephele>
why? i can type into this box and already get spiffy answers!
<Begasus[m]>
heh
<OscarL>
nephele: and if I'm logged in... replies are as equally likely to be just plain hallucinations!
<nephele>
I mean, you are capable of saying things like "not sure", or "i don't know"... that's miles ahead of these confidently-lying-simulation machines ;)
<Begasus[m]>
PR for kdevelop up OscarL
<Begasus[m]>
let's see about clazy, why I didn't push that one yet
<OscarL>
nephele: true that! and supposedly I'm only around 20 watts to run this "brain" thing.
<OscarL>
*only using around...
<nephele>
my xmpp server will hopefully use less :3
<nephele>
making it out of a destroyed galaxy s3
<OscarL>
nice!
<OscarL>
would be so cool to be able to re-use/repurpose all old phones the way we can with PC.
<nephele>
you can
<nephele>
with postmarketOS
<nephele>
you can flash the equivalent of alpine linux
<nephele>
err, well, not sure about "all", but many of them :)
<OscarL>
doen't that only works on a limited set of devices?
<OscarL>
I had *never* found one of those for any device I had owned (too "low-tier" I guess),
<nephele>
some can work with a "generic" SOC based port
<nephele>
if you don't need/want stuff like touchscreen, LTE modem, etc then the compatibility bar is much easier
<OscarL>
Begasus[m]: kdevelop PR looks OK to me (minus the "pusch" typo :-D)
<Begasus[m]>
commit message adjusted :)
<nekobot>
• pulkomandy (c9ec6cab): Merge HaikuWebKit 622.1.16 into Haiku
<nekobot>
• pulkomandy (0f062abf): Fix build after merge
<nekobot>
• pulkomandy (31048a11): Fix build for both beta5 and current nightlies
<OscarL>
nephele: right. I think I could dispense of those for some use cases. Still would be nice to just "download a small linux iso, install that on old phone". So far it looked too cumbersome of a process to me.
<OscarL>
Even trying to re-flash a router sounds more straight forward to me, somehow :-D
<OscarL>
(when I don't destroy it while trying to solder the RX/TX pins)
<nephele>
for some devices you can use the ubuntu touch installer, it is very "gui"
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<nephele>
but for postmarketOS you basically download a tool, give it some info, and if the device is supported already it will make you a build and then you can just flash it
<nephele>
it's straightforward enough if you are a bit technical
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<OscarL>
(thus my "as in PCs" part of my desire for some standard way of booting/installing. not enough supported devices in my part of the world)
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<OscarL>
lots of great work on postmarket, lineage, etc, etc... sucks on manufacturer/hardware side, sadly.
<nekobot>
• Begasus (6e09b245): kdevelop, revbump, push clang to version 20 (#12489)…
<|cos|>
Last time I tried flashing an android device I gave up after a day of research without seeing a clear path to success. One needs to contact the vendor to request to unlock the bootloader and skim through endless forumposts with very low signal to noise ratio. Almost as painful as to actually use android!
<OscarL>
Begasus[m]: cool! /me should download llvm20 now, next time I'm near a WiFi :-)
<nephele>
flashing itself is very easy. unlocking the bootloader may not be as easy
<nephele>
but it's basically: if you have a samsung phone use heimdall (or odin) to flash your device. For everything else use fastboot from the adb toolset
<nephele>
(or you can install a custom recovery, again using fastboot, and that can provide a gui way to flash stuff from usb storage)
<|cos|>
Yeah. But in order to flash, you should be prepared to to access some website with TLS certificates expired half a decade ago enter your serial numbers and hope it'll result in an unlock key. I can't remember exactly where I gave up. :)
<nephele>
yeah, that's terrible
<nephele>
I heavily dislike this ask-the-manufacturer style
<nephele>
the fairphone 5 also employs that, for an otherwise open and "well-supported" device that is quite shamefull
<nekobot>
• Begasus (ed195459): clazy, bump to 1.14 (#12490)…
<Begasus[m]>
woot OscarL osl1.11 still uses clang12 :P
<OscarL>
right.
<Begasus[m]>
first tackle osl1.13
<OscarL>
I think we can leave that one out for now... (at least it doesn adds a "new" dependency). Need to test YCM with LLVM12 too. Will do that after some coffee.
<OscarL>
ehhh..
<OscarL>
do we have multiple osl1? ouch.
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<Begasus[m]>
-- LLVM 20.1.4 is outside the required range 9.0...18.9
<Begasus[m]>
bugger
<OscarL>
osl1.13 uses llvm12 (last I've checked). that was the one I ment to point out while saying... those can wait, IMO.
<Begasus[m]>
ok, putting aside ...
<OscarL>
+1. if you end up touching the Genio recipe... nitpick: please make the requires be "cmd:clangd" (with d at the end)
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<Begasus[m]>
ccls build failure ...
<OscarL>
ouch
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<OscarL>
mmm, repos have "osl1.11_x86", but 1.13 is activated for x86 too, so I guess the 1.13 build failed and no one noticed (to either fix it, or mark the recipes accordingly).
<OscarL>
(mmm, libvm12_libs has lib:libclang, but devel:libclang is in llvm12_clang. not downloading 100+ MiB of that just to test a single build :-D)
<OscarL>
Begasus[m]: when you said YCM was fine with LLVM20... was that at install time, or a build?
<Begasus[m]>
build OscarL
<Begasus[m]>
osl1.14 requires Qt now? :P
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<Begasus[m]>
biab (brake)
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* OscarL
discovers "suicide linux battle royale" in the "tildeverse", and has a good laugh imagining not making it too far past the login, given his typing skills.
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<Begasus[m]>
mission impossible? ;)
<Begasus[m]>
OscarL: looking at: "inrecipe lib:libosl" it only pops up (commented out) line for blender2
<Begasus[m]>
I'll leave those 2 alone for now :)
<OscarL>
sounds ok.
<Begasus[m]>
buildmasters finished OK on previous pushes
<Begasus[m]>
reports still clean
<OscarL>
zero matches for "pks -r lib:osl / lib:libosl / cmd:osl" on 64 bits. and repology says: "Gone project libosl" 8-/
<Begasus[m]>
OscarL: want me to push the change for YCM also?
<Begasus[m]>
I think PulkoMandy is one of it's major users?
<OscarL>
If you think it makes sense, sure. (in any case, I'll only be able to test it when I'm able to download the llvm20 libs/clang packages).
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<OscarL>
I mostly lightly tried the python-side of autocompletion anyway.
<OscarL>
let me do a quick test for .cpp files with the llvm16 version I have here.
<Begasus[m]>
+1
<OscarL>
seems to work fine... I just did this (in case you want to test locally):
<OscarL>
"gvim CDoc.cpp" (on the Pe repo). scrolled down to the body of CDoc::CDoc(), hit "i" to enter insert mode... typed "fDoc" and the autocomplete showed up... selected "fDocIO" hit "." and the correct methods showed up in autocomplete.
<Begasus[m]>
sec, running build for gdal atm
<OscarL>
hit Esc, then :q! to exit"
<OscarL>
I do have a "compile_commands.json" already present on the root of my Pe clone, so that might be why it worked right away.
* OscarL
tries with other project, just to check that.
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<OscarL>
right, on a project where I don't have that "compile_commands.json", it only offers autocomplete of strings present on the same file.
<OscarL>
*kinda cool in the sense of: Haiku native, vs nodejs/whatever implementation, simple dependencies. (not big on "social" stuff here, but decentralized/self-host ones are technically interesting)
<Habbie>
right, nice
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<nephele>
i like p2p stuff
<nephele>
i want a p2p voip for a local LAN
<nephele>
tried getting that for linux yesterday, didn't really work out... gave up in frustration :)
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<Begasus[m]>
k, can't get rid of the error on clang20 in qt6_tools 6.7.2, so leaving that one be also :)
<OscarL>
Begasus[m]: I wonder if we could just drop "fife". It was originally used by "unknown_horizons", but that recipe requires python 2.x (so: dead), newer versions of that game use godot engine now... and I can't find any other game that uses FIFE at all :-/
<Begasus[m]>
OscarL: tried to revive unknown... but never got it to launch
<Begasus[m]>
can that even be installed now?
<Begasus[m]>
as we don't even have python2
<OscarL>
noup. still wants cmd:python
<Begasus[m]>
maybe just disable both for now?
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<Begasus[m]>
or just nuke them :)
<OscarL>
I was pretty sure we have dropped unknown_horizons already :-), just found it again after trying to figure out why we still have fife, as that seems pretty dead/useless.
<OscarL>
I'm always a bit to eager to nuke older stuff, I'd admit that... (am still glad PulkoMandy nudged me into not letting "Monsterz" die (turned out to be quite a banger that little game :-D).
<Begasus[m]>
I'm guessing our godot port can't be used on that jmairboeck ?
<OscarL>
but for uknown_horizons... seems to me like maintaining a pre-godot (fife) version is a bit too much.
<Begasus[m]>
never really checked anything there
* OscarL
just wants too boot fife, to be honest :-P
<jmairboeck>
I don't know
<jmairboeck>
I guess it's fine to remove it
<Begasus[m]>
looking upstream it needs godot4 also
<Begasus[m]>
and they are looking for maintainer for it
<Begasus[m]>
*s
<Begasus[m]>
OscarL: did you try "pip3 install --user unknown-horizon" ? :P
<OscarL>
was it Debian the project that tends to drop packages/recipes without a maintainer? (I wonder about when Haiku might need something like that)
<OscarL>
Begasus[m]: not doing much installing of anything lately :-P
<Begasus[m]>
gotcha :)
<Begasus[m]>
on the other hand OscarL we might have some old-school users around that like those old apps :)
<OscarL>
sure, but no one mentioned the "missing" unknown_horizons so far.
<Begasus[m]>
ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'fife'
<OscarL>
I mean... if anyone of us want to do it... I'm ultra OK.
<Begasus[m]>
even when installed
<OscarL>
but just having semi-dead recipes that are not really used, and having to take them into consideration when updating things... not really nice.
<Begasus[m]>
I'm good with removing it
<OscarL>
(unless any of us or a contributor steps up, of course)
<Begasus[m]>
fifechan maybe too if it's not used?
* OscarL
keeps typoing "irc fife" instead of his "irq fife" (irq=inrecipe, but using queries).
<Begasus[m]>
^^
<OscarL>
seems like fife requires fifechan, so /me might need to use both legs at the same time to kick them out. Wonder how well that would go :-P
<Begasus[m]>
153 items in /boot/home/config/non-packaged/lib/python3.10/site-packages again ....
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<OscarL>
I'll open a PR doing some roundhouse-kicks for fife+fifechan+uknown_horizons, and see if they spark any interest in the following days, or if we can just let them RIP. :-)
<Begasus[m]>
cleaned up
<OscarL>
Begasus[m]: and you call *me* the python guy? I don't even have pip installed! :-P
<OscarL>
(well... there's pip3.10)
<Begasus[m]>
nuked them all, even the ones in ... bin
<OscarL>
ah, only pip, and pyserial installed on --user :-D
<OscarL>
^ sounds healthy.
<Begasus[m]>
one installed in /boot/home/config/lib/python3.10/vendor-packages :)
<Begasus[m]>
not anymore
<OscarL>
Indiana Jones would approve of the lack of pythons.
<OscarL>
(specially being python *packages*)
<Begasus[m]>
jikes, not going after updating godot, massive patchset :P
<Begasus[m]>
hehe
<OscarL>
heh, your middlename is "Sidetracked", isn't it? :-P
<OscarL>
(sorry for contributing to that, my man!)
<Begasus[m]>
busted ... :P
<Begasus[m]>
guess if someone has an interest in it they will show up :)
<Begasus[m]>
not even sure what it's about, but I'm sure he knew what he wrote there :P
<OscarL>
re: repology... can't always chase the latest (and not always greatest). I'd say focusing on "core" packages, ones with serious security vulnerabilities, and spending time in improving recipe/patchsets is more than fine.
<OscarL>
(specially given the team size)
<OscarL>
you do an *amazing* job already, Begasus[m]. Don't ever "stress" too much about that list :-)
<scanty>
good morning, good afternoon, good evening, and good night.
<OscarL>
oh, scanty's in da house!
<scanty>
Hi OscarL
<scanty>
i think it will do my first PR a little bit later, for Pe
<OscarL>
awesomo, scanty! thanks in advance.
<Begasus[m]>
zlib is still on par, oof :P
<Begasus[m]>
Hi there scanty :)
<Begasus[m]>
From: Scott McCreary <scottmc2@gmail.com>
<Begasus[m]>
that is one from long time ago :P
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<OscarL>
I was pleasantly surprised when I saw that Scott had voted on me becomming an HP member, as I haven't seen him active otherise (granted, I'm not on many mailing lists anymore).
<OscarL>
amazing tonnes of work he did over the years!
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<OscarL>
s/otherise/otherwise/
<Begasus[m]>
yeah, not that active, but has been to pop up in GSoC mailing list
<scanty>
Hi Begasus[m], sorry mised you there!
<Begasus[m]>
np scanty :)
<scanty>
OscarL: i will need your help later to do a PR -- never done in before, even in my own trees.
<OscarL>
less scarier than it might look, and even I managed to do it in the end, so... you'll manage, my friend! (happy to be of any help, in any case!)
<scanty>
cool, thanks. it's probably an easier process than i am anticipating.]\
<Begasus[m]>
ground rule, create a branch :)
<OscarL>
Main "pro tip" (more like beginner's friendly) are: always easier to push from a branch, as it makes keeping track of "upstream master" far easier, IME.
<OscarL>
s/are/is/
<scanty>
all right. i'll bother you a little bit later :^)
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<OscarL>
(if you haven't used a branch yet, and have committed your changes in master, no biggie, can always create a branch from that anyway, and later "reset" master if needed)
<scanty>
cool.
<OscarL>
there's a moment where git finally kinda "clicks" on you, even if one (/me) have to use "cheatsheets" most of the time to remember the right incantations. But at least it stops being scary :-)
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<scanty>
i just know the basics of git, enough to maintain a haiku port of my NES emulator, in which my haiku changes have not been applied to the master tree yet.
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<Begasus[m]>
OscarL: we're missing a few build_python python versions :P
<OscarL>
not having to resort to "rm -f foobar && git clone <foobar>" upon some minor "git screw" up is a *major* milestone in git usage, in my experience :-D
<OscarL>
Begasus[m]: I'm slowly, but steadly, becomming part of the "if it anin't broken, don't fix it" crowd :-P
<OscarL>
that being said... if something doesn't works, please, let me know.
<scanty>
yeah.... i had a bad push last time, and there were differences in a file, which was really simple to fix.
<Begasus[m]>
OscarL: update for pip fails for it :)
<scanty>
other than that, smooth sailing.
<Begasus[m]>
using build/installer*
<OscarL>
(I'll try to not chase "bigger numbers" unless strictly necessary)
<OscarL>
Begasus[m]: you mean for our pip .recipe? (we should not have one)
<OscarL>
I intend to nuke the pip .recipe from haikuports.
<OscarL>
("--altinstall" for python versions that are not the "Haiku default"
<OscarL>
"--default-pip" otherwise
<PawanYr>
Hey all, just reupping my question from yesterday: Is there anyone around who's familiar with app server and would be willing to review my patch (+9256)? Waddlesplash mentioned that's the bottleneck to it getting merged, and I'd really appreciate if this bug was fixed on the nightlies
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<OscarL>
PawanYr: hello there! Not much of us have the needed skill level for that here, I guess. The ones that do... you alreadt heard from on that review. Please don't get discouraged by the lack of follow ups... things in Haiku-land can be pretty slow...
<OscarL>
specially in "deeper" areas.
<OscarL>
you *could* try posting about that change on the dev mailing list I guess, but not sure if the "old guard" is really monitoring that either (besides the ones that already watch gerrit)
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<Begasus[m]>
lol deleted a bit too much, nuked my kde-builder :P
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<OscarL>
PawanYr: in any case... thanks a bunch for your work and interest in Haiku. Very much appreciated!
<nekobot>
[haiku/haiku] ba28b6f5f721 - Mail: Avoid duplicate Person items
<OscarL>
PawanYr: besides your app_server patch... thanks for at least getting the ball rolling on the Installer+EFI issue. Surely will help plenty of end-users in the end!
<nekobot>
[haiku/haiku] 904fd2abf045 - POSIX-2024: support for O_CLOFORK, SO_CLOFORK
<nekobot>
[haiku/haiku] 396ebbc16f50 - POSIX-2024: support for MSG_CMSG_CLOEXEC and MSG_CMSG_CLOFORK
<nekobot>
[haiku/haiku] 23f923bcafe1 - libbsd: add closefrom() and close_range()
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<OscarL>
I remember when humdinger couldn't code a "hello world" to save his life. I aspire to become half the coder he is nowadays.
<nephele>
I don't think C++ will save your life in any case ;)
<OscarL>
true dat.
* OscarL
trying to avoid a "too dark of a turn"... C++ has enough "guns" (foot or otherwise) to at least keep him interested :-)
<PawanYr>
OscarL: Yeah, I've installed Haiku a lot and always got annoyed having to do that stuff by hand; once this initial patch is merged I think I might try to tackle auto-full disk setup of some sort
<nephele>
PawanYr, I have a ticket for the auto-mode
<nephele>
I think the main "problem" there is UI, to make it very clear to a user *which* disk they would overwrite
<nephele>
also, we are missing support for efi runtime services still
* OscarL
remembers that he needs to try to boot 32 bits Haiku on this thing. bbiab.
<OscarL>
welp... couldn't boot into 32 bits on bare metal.
<OscarL>
boot menu showed booth Haiku64 and Haiku32 bits installs (and their states) properly, but immediatly saw the boot menu after trying to "continue boot" after selecting the 32 bits volume.
<OscarL>
I updated the .efi file, even, to at least match the one from the installs.
<OscarL>
I might need a 32 bits .efi, I guess?
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<nephele>
if you see the boot menu you are already in the right efi loader
<nephele>
(that means it matches your machine firmware arch)
<OscarL>
I can boot 64 bits Haiku no problems on this machine.
<nephele>
the 64bit efi loader needs support to boot the 32bit haiku. but you can't use the 32bit efi loader on 64bit firmware
<OscarL>
It just a bit weird, because on other netboots (using BIOS mode) usually is the other way around..
<OscarL>
the 64 bits boot loader will NOT show 32 bits install, but the 32 bits bootloader will show (and be able to boot) both 32 and 64 bits Haiku.
<nephele>
on efi? that works on 32bit firmware, but the same support has to be added for the other way around too :D
<jmairboeck>
there was a fork with a branch from someone on GitHub to add hybrid boot support to the efi loader, but it was never finished
<OscarL>
(to be fair... I have very little experience with EFI systems)
<Begasus[m]>
Hanicef: did the update to libheif created problems?
<Hanicef[m]>
most likely no, since this was a missed edge case with libjxl's quirky api
<OscarL>
Im still glad I can just use VBox (and eventually VMware) to boot 32 bits from the same 32 bits install I used to boot on bare-metal. Still would be nice to do that on this "new" netbook.
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<Hanicef[m]>
they did a pretty subtle breaking change in the api between 0.5 and 0.11 that caused issues
<Begasus[m]>
OK, checked it with the HEIC translator, that was still fine (for libheif)
<Hanicef[m]>
i'm also thinking of porting chocolate quake after i'm done with the jxl translator (i already got it compiling and running on haiku, so it should be an easy port)
<Begasus[m]>
k, rebuild jxl_translator :)
<OscarL>
don't we already have chocolate quake?
* OscarL
forgot to reboot the vm after rebooting. Sigh.
<Hanicef[m]>
we have chocolate doom, but not chocolate quake afaik
<OscarL>
ah! /me mixed up his chocolates again. nevermind him then :-)
<Hanicef[m]>
yeah, they have the same goal, but for different games :)
<Begasus[m]>
both the png with transparancy and the heic image saved as jxl in ShowImage worked!
<OscarL>
I mean... I used to be *really* good at Quake at the time when some of use stil played it with keyboard only... so I *might* be a bit interested in playing it, Hanicef[m], even if I suck at it nowadays :-D
<Begasus[m]>
and the mismatch on the heic image is gone too, nice!
<Begasus[m]>
OscarL since you are on 32bit maybe you could check there? ;)
<OscarL>
I couldn't boot into 32 bits bare metal, Begasus[m]. Now at 64 bits on VM again.
<OscarL>
in any case... what should I try on 32, again? (bit distracted here, to the suprise of no-one).
* Begasus[m]
boots up 32bit on other laptop
<Begasus[m]>
jxl-translator :)
<Hanicef[m]>
should we wait some more for a response from the upstream maintainer? it's been a week now and no response, but a week is still kind of a short time
<Hanicef[m]>
then again, i already saw this coming based on looking at past activity and such, to be honest
<OscarL>
(I should pay more attention to the file sizes that matrix bridge thing kindly provides next to the links)
<Begasus[m]>
is it larger then using uploadit OscarL ?
<OscarL>
Hanicef[m]: heh, I *truly* understand your position... on the other hand... I had PRs for about a year on HaikuArchives before they got finally merged :-D
<OscarL>
Begasus[m]: 2045 KiB according to the link I should have read closer (I read it as 245 KiB :-D)
<Begasus[m]>
yeah, seen it a few times also in the last days
<OscarL>
3th refresh worked.
<Hanicef[m]>
Begasus[m]: i'll get to fixing it, thanks for the info
<Begasus[m]>
no problem, that's why it's good to check it on 32bit also
<Begasus[m]>
and this is a small source base, so quick check :)
<OscarL>
Hanicef[m]: is configview.cpp from the Haiku native code? if so... use the "B_PRI*" format constants from SupportDefs.h
<Hanicef[m]>
i just changed it to an int instead, since it's a value returned by libjxl
<Hanicef[m]>
anyway, it's updated now
<OscarL>
64 bits "int", or 32 bits "int"?
<jmairboeck>
int is 32 bit in both
<Hanicef[m]>
32-bit int, `int` is 32-bit on both 32-bit and 64-bit systems in c and c++
<Hanicef[m]>
besides, it takes a `%d` which maps to `int`, regardless of it's size
<OscarL>
thanks to both of you.
<Hanicef[m]>
np
<jmairboeck>
it could be 64 bit on 64 bit systems and still be conforming to the standard, but Haiku isn't one of them
<OscarL>
is it "long/long int" then the one that change meaning, right?
<jmairboeck>
yes, long is different
<Hanicef[m]>
yes, `long` is 32-bit on 32-bit and 64-bit on 64-bit
<OscarL>
+1
<phschafft>
int is whatever the compiler likes. if you want a specific size, use a specific size.
<Hanicef[m]>
`long long` is 64-bit on both, though
<phschafft>
please do not write code that depends on their size. that is an error that we know to do better for at least 40 years now...
<Hanicef[m]>
phschafft: in this context, it doesn't really matter, though, since the problem is that it passed `int32` to `%d` and is now changed to `int`
<phschafft>
add a cast.
<phschafft>
but don't expect a specific size.
<phschafft>
the cast will tell the compiler to do the right thing.
<Hanicef[m]>
i don't, i just wanted to fix a compiler warning
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<Begasus[m]>
build completes, fails at INSTALL()?
<Begasus_32>
Failed to open input file `objects.x86_gcc2-cc13-release/JXLMime.rsrc': No such file or directory
<jmairboeck>
for int32, the correct thing to do is to use the corresponding macro instead of hardcoding %d
<phschafft>
jmairboeck++
<jmairboeck>
%d corresponds to int which could be different to int32
<Hanicef[m]>
jmairboeck: this value came from libjxl, which doesn't have `int32`
<Hanicef[m]>
so it's still wrong
<phschafft>
(for some reason I assumed that is not a POSIX printf() style function but something else)
<Hanicef[m]>
Begasus_32: ok, that's interesting
<jmairboeck>
what is the return type of that function?
<scanty>
DAEMON 'DHCP': /dev/net/ipro1000/0: Send DHCP_DISCOVER to 255.255.255.255:67
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<scanty>
my bad about the spam
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<scanty>
pastebin or similar nex time for sure.
<scanty>
next*
<scanty>
wait, 50.238.194.74 that didn't count.
<scanty>
ignore that line.
<scanty>
i was paranoid about an ip so i had to look it up.
<OscarL>
scanty: you should see "/var/log/syslog" if you don't... maybe you have removed it (rm) and haven't rebooted since?
<scanty>
i dont' see it.
<OscarL>
I usually do "rm /var/log/syslog" and reboot, when I'm interested in getting a "clean" syslog. and "tail -f /var/log/syslog" when I'm interested in seeing what my shenanigans generate there after boot :-D
<scanty>
i haven't rebooted in a really long time.
<scanty>
interestingly enough... it i do a find "syslog" it shows up
<OscarL>
"query syslog" on Terminal should also print "/var/log/syslog" then, I would assume.
<OscarL>
or it shows it in other location?
<scanty>
it shows up in the Find results window
<OscarL>
I reboot way too often to notice bugs that only show up after long time :-D
<OscarL>
I would suggest a reboot and "checkfs /boot", just in case, scanty.
<Hanicef[m]>
and the suggestion is applied
<scanty>
so something funny is going on with tracker, then.
<Anarchos>
Begasus[m]hello luc
<scanty>
I can open the file.
<scanty>
but it does not show up in the log directory.
<OscarL>
he already left for the day, Anarchos. (hello there, btw :-D)
<Anarchos>
OscarL hello
<OscarL>
scanty: then maybe a simple Tracker restart might "fix" it?
<scanty>
weird, refresh tracker window, now i have the syslog file, and it is full of what i pasted earlier.
<OscarL>
mmm, sounds like some memory corruption then, no?
<scanty>
something is going on with the ipro1000 driver.
<scanty>
and the file is growing.
<scanty>
there are writes to this file every 60ish seconds.
<OscarL>
(I think I had situations where I saw files show "garbage", but be OK on reboot. So cached versions had bad data, but on-disk was OK.)
<OscarL>
at the very least, the DHCP stuff is VERY chatty, and makes syslog file grow.
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<scanty>
yes, but my point is that it shouldn't be happening
<OscarL>
syslog file growing sounds "normal" to me. won't get bigger than 512 KB by default before being "rotated". Stuff being overly chatty on the other hand... varies. some is alredy fixed on nightlies, for example.
<scanty>
ah i see.
<scanty>
so no point to report it?
<OscarL>
file growing? nah, unless you see it go beyond 512 KB.
<OscarL>
or unless what makes it grow sounds either too stupid to log in, or important to not mention :-D
<Hanicef[m]>
i prefer formats that are easily readable by both humans and machines
<gordonjcp>
Hanicef[m]: like sqlite
<Hanicef[m]>
yes, getting those formats right is pain, but it's heaven to work with if you get it right
<nephele>
Hanicef[m]: can you read TTY color codes? :)
<Hanicef[m]>
gordonjcp: depends on the content, i'd say
<gordonjcp>
Hanicef[m]: you end up using some sort of tool to read it whatever format it's in
<nephele>
it's all binary, humans can't read i in any case
<nephele>
it seems to be more "i know unix tools, so i want thsoe"
<gordonjcp>
Hanicef[m]: even if you're just looking at a hexdump of a disk sector
<gordonjcp>
nephele: you'd be amazed how much of my day-to-day comes down to "why the fuck is this an excel sheet, this should be in a database", and writing a bit of python to read an xlsx, put it in sqlite, do the database work, and then - sadly - emit it as an xlsx again
<Hanicef[m]>
@_oftc_gordonjcp:matrix.org sure, but the issue with binary formats is that you can't open it without special tooling, which is fine in certain cases but makes debugging damn near impossible in other cases like for boot issues
<Hanicef[m]>
besides, unix is an entirely different beast that benefit much more from text logs over binary logs
<Hanicef[m]>
no other system has it that way
<nephele>
you can't open our syslog files *correctly* with *any* tooling
<nephele>
it's emiting stuff ment for different viewers that makes no sense
<Hanicef[m]>
:D
<nephele>
text logs *ARE* binary logs
<nephele>
there is no reason you can't grep them, less them etc. linux even has these kinds of tools, with gzgrep, gzcat etc... you can make commandline interfaces for whatever format you want
<gordonjcp>
Hanicef[m]: but you can't open plain text logs without special tooling
<Hanicef[m]>
good luck using grep and co on systemd log files
<gordonjcp>
Hanicef[m]: you have to use something like less or vim, or even grep
<nephele>
Hanicef[m]: so what?
<Hanicef[m]>
you'll get garbage no matter how hard you try without systemd's tools
<nephele>
fwif cat works just fine on systemd log files
<gordonjcp>
if you stick it all in sqlite databases, you just use sqlite to read it
<nephele>
because it's ment to concatonate files...
<gordonjcp>
you can also read a hexdump of the sqlite file, it's human-readable
<Hanicef[m]>
nephele: nope, that corrupts it since it's sensitive to that
<Hanicef[m]>
you can't concatenate systemd log files
<Hanicef[m]>
there is a reason why it's so controversial
<gordonjcp>
Hanicef[m]: [citation needed]
<nephele>
Hanicef[m]: same argument could me made the exact other way around though. Try reading <tty based utf-8 log> without systemd logviewer, you'll only get garbage out of it without unix tools
<Hanicef[m]>
"tty based"?
<nephele>
log files intended to be viewed in a vt based terminal emulator ;)
<Hanicef[m]>
i have never in my entire life seen a file like that
<nephele>
... probably because you use a terminal?
<gordonjcp>
Hanicef[m]: you've never seen a plain text file with embedded ANSI?
<gordonjcp>
Hanicef[m]: or unicode for that matter?
<Hanicef[m]>
normally, files in /var/log are readable using cat, or any utf-8 text reader/editor for that matter
<gordonjcp>
<3 ansi.sys
<gordonjcp>
Hanicef[m]: yes, they are, including systemd ones
<gordonjcp>
Hanicef[m]: but you have to use a special tool to read the files in /var/log
<Hanicef[m]>
that's even true for haiku, check /var/log/syslog
<gordonjcp>
Hanicef[m]: yes, you need to use a special tool to read /var/log/syslog
<nephele>
there is enough ""smart"" loggers that add color escape codes directly into the file, so it renders cool, if you use the terminal
<nephele>
and works terribly everywhere else
<nephele>
Case in point: It doesn't work properly in StyledEdit *because* of color escape sequences
<Hanicef[m]>
gordonjcp: i just did cat /var/log/syslog, perfectly readable to me
<Hanicef[m]>
i can open it in pe, too
<gordonjcp>
nephele: I am in two minds about those, I love charmbracelet/log in Go but I do wonder how it survives being dumped to disk
<gordonjcp>
Hanicef[m]: right, you used cat, that's a special tool
<Hanicef[m]>
perfectly readable
<Hanicef[m]>
if all tools are special, none are
<Hanicef[m]>
what's your point?
<nephele>
Exactly the point. There is no such thing as "just plaintext"
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<Hanicef[m]>
yes there is: files that only contains characters that are readable utf-8 characters
<Hanicef[m]>
that's the definition of plaintext
<nephele>
Not even cat alone, you used a special emulation software called "Terminal" that emulates ancient hardware with some additions... :)
<nephele>
No, it isn't
<Hanicef[m]>
so, you're saying that plaintext has no meaning whatsoever?
<nephele>
It's neither a well specified format, nor one with special properties that make it suitable for anything related to logging....
<nephele>
and it isn't human readable
<Hanicef[m]>
i never said it was a specific format, but it is a well-known concept
<Hanicef[m]>
the very reason why we use the term "plaintext" is to describe stuff that contains plain readable text so generic text tools can be used on them
<nephele>
text tools... would be a set of specialized tools to interpret binary data, in this context
<Hanicef[m]>
you realize that you are really stretching definitions here, right?
<Hanicef[m]>
generic tools means that they can be used for various purposes: text editors can be used for taking notes, programming, configuring systems, ...
<Hanicef[m]>
specialized tools are tools build for a specific purpose, like a log reader is built to read logs, nothing else
<nephele>
log reader is first a function, if you open a log with less then less is your log reader
<nephele>
not a particularily good one, but still
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<nephele>
cat is a tool to concatonate files, nothing else, less is a tool to paginate a specific format, etc. all specialized tools. I'd even say most posix tools are specializd. The whole "do only one thing and do it well" stuff seems like a fitting definition for that
<Hanicef[m]>
but you can use less for more than just reading logs, like paging output, reading files, ...
<nephele>
It's there for paging files.
<nephele>
You do the actuall reading of the log in your terminal emulator
<nephele>
(visually)
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<Hanicef[m]>
try `curl https://example.com | less` and you'll see that the "paging *files*" part is straight up wrong :)
<Hanicef[m]>
with less, you can page anything that output utf-8
<Hanicef[m]>
it doesn't have to be a file
<nephele>
Uhh, no. it's right. What you are doing is making less open a file descriptor for reading, and curl writing to it...
<nephele>
that's the entire idea of unix... to use files?
<nephele>
file doesn't mean "has to be on disk" in unix
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<nephele>
anyhow, i'm heading to sleep. :)
<Hanicef[m]>
gn
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<Hanicef[m]>
anyway, just to say it: "everything is a file" refers to the concept that system components should be located in the filesystem so tools can reach them via file descriptors, but file descriptions themselves are not files
<Hanicef[m]>
same is true when you're opening up a file for reading: you don't create a file to read a file, you just read the file
<gordonjcp>
at least you're not dealing with software that generates HTML log files
<Hanicef[m]>
i've dealt with interlaced xml files throwing parsing errors before
<Hanicef[m]>
race conditions is fun
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<phschafft>
evening.
<Habbie>
yes it is
<phschafft>
thought so.
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