<PulkoMandy>
I should finish the work in reformatting it and publishing the reformatted/updated volume 1 on haiku website :(
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<SuperRyn>
yup that certainly looks like it goes far enough to get me started, once i carry over from volume 1
<SuperRyn>
anyway i gtg now, feel free to continue responding to me: also does anyone know why BePDF 2.1.4-6 is invisible when i start it? it's making me have to use okular
<Begasus[m]>
re
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* phschafft
comes in, waves, and first checks the cookie bowl.
<phschafft>
Begasus[m]: dog school sounds good. read, write, and a bit of math I guess? like you show them an integral and then count up and they raise their paw once you told the right solution?
<Begasus[m]>
about right, only problem is .... everything :)
<phschafft>
;)
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<swiftbanana[m]>
I mean, everytime you mention dog school I envision that
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<phschafft>
;)
<Begasus[m]>
swiftbanana you should see that with a husky :)
<swiftbanana[m]>
Oh boy, how do you manage to teach math to huskies
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<phschafft>
I guess they are good with the parts of math that consider infinite runs of things ;)
<swiftbanana[m]>
Omg you’re right xD
<phschafft>
;)
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<Llampec>
awruuu
<phschafft>
mau...
<erysdren>
meow :3
* phschafft
provides a cookie to Llampec and erysdren.
<erysdren>
nom
<erysdren>
howdy phschafft
<erysdren>
hows it going?
<phschafft>
oh, not a bad morning.
<phschafft>
and on your end?
<erysdren>
pretty good!
<erysdren>
i got bored and spun up a gopherspace on my website.
<phschafft>
I... see.
<phschafft>
;)
<phschafft>
I hope that I can get some SDL based framebuffer stuff done today.
<erysdren>
nice!
<phschafft>
but also so many other projects, including some soldering.
<phschafft>
erysdren: had a look at the plan9 draw API, and then decided that... I will ignore that one. ;)
<erysdren>
probably for the best :P
<phschafft>
;)
<erysdren>
plan9 has some fun ideas, but the way it handled graphics was not one of them
<phschafft>
to me it looks like it was super complicated but stuck in the early 90s.
<erysdren>
in my opinion
<erysdren>
yeah
<phschafft>
like you can use a image as a colour for a line drawing operation, so basically the line is than used as a mask to that image...
<phschafft>
that sounds like very strangely specific and hardly worth implementing ;)
<erysdren>
:P
<phschafft>
on the other hand it doesn't implemt even thicknesses (in pixels) for any kind of object.
<phschafft>
so no luck if you want to draw a line 2px wide.
<erysdren>
lame yeah
<phschafft>
one of the hardest things in my head right now is what to print when the API call is made to show the drawing cursor in graphic mode. feel like I need some cute thing to be rendered.
<phschafft>
not just a line or crosshair or something. something cute.
<erysdren>
i'm also thinking of adding a Gemini mirror of my website
<erysdren>
since all my pages are markdown anyway
<erysdren>
shouldn't be too hard to convert them in some way
<Llampec>
arfe
<phschafft>
hm.
<phschafft>
I never played much with markdown myself as I feel that they are just hard to read both for humans and for machines.
<phschafft>
$personal_opinion
<erysdren>
Llampec: mrreow
<erysdren>
totally disagre phschafft. it's hard for computers to read, yes, but i don't mind writing it. i even write all my personal note files in markdown.
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<phschafft>
erysdren: nothing wrong with disagreing. :)
<erysdren>
:3
<phschafft>
was hoping to have like a 3 LED vu-meter but it seems I'm out :(
<swiftbanana[m]>
If you have written and read latex before, markdown feels like a breeze
<phschafft>
I'm... not sure.
<phschafft>
but good that you can embed \LaTeX in markdown!
<phschafft>
at least the math mode is supported by Forgejo
<phschafft>
... which I often use. :)
<swiftbanana[m]>
I mean, it depends on your preferences of course
<phschafft>
to me markdown somehow managed to get stuck with being both too simple to actually support what I need, and too complex for me to actually ne able to use it.
<swiftbanana[m]>
Yeah, I can understand
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<swiftbanana[m]>
Regarding LaTeX, I was always deeply annoyed at the fact that it was a pretending to be a semantic markup, but was built in a non-semantic non-hygienic macro language that produced primitives for a deeply unsemantic language
<swiftbanana[m]>
Like, "separating content and layout" meh
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<swiftbanana[m]>
HTML+CSS does that well, but I don’t think LaTeX is doing a good job at that
<swiftbanana[m]>
But, well, at the time it was a a very cool solution, I just think it didn’t age well
<swiftbanana[m]>
Today I’d rather use a markdown of some sort or something equivalent for simple needs, and for more complicated stuff something like typst
<swiftbanana[m]>
(Or probably PAO software but that is another story)
<phschafft>
swiftbanana[m]: I think it has some aspects that just never got a better replacement.
<phschafft>
while other aspects we got that.
<swiftbanana[m]>
Hm
<phschafft>
e.g. if you want to quickly write some math down it still feels like the best tool we have.
<phschafft>
if you want to write a children's book, maybe not. ;)
<swiftbanana[m]>
I feel like typst can be thought as sort of a modern latex replacement
<swiftbanana[m]>
Have you had a look at it?
<phschafft>
no.
<phschafft>
but I must say that my interest in the context of writing documents with a linear source is slim for other reasons nowadays.
<swiftbanana[m]>
Understandable
<phschafft>
but I mean that is part of my point: we now have some good alternatives. :)
<swiftbanana[m]>
Yeah, exactly
<swiftbanana[m]>
(Completely unrelated: is there a prefered archive type for Haiku? Something more BeFS friendly than, say, a zip file? Or are zip files perfectly fine?)
<PulkoMandy>
Zip files work perfectly and store extended attributes, so that's the preferred format
<swiftbanana[m]>
Awesome
<swiftbanana[m]>
Are there archive formats that are to be avoided? Like maybe tar or 7z do not play well with BeFS?
<erysdren>
no idea, but zip is probably good enough. it helps that zip is the best to seek around in, in my experience anyway
<Habbie>
tar is barely seekable uncompressed and entirely unseekable when compressed
<erysdren>
yeah
<erysdren>
very annoying.
<Habbie>
The 7z format does not store filesystem permissions (such as UNIX owner/group permissions or NTFS ACLs)
<erysdren>
does zip store that?
<Habbie>
i see pages claiming it can
<erysdren>
ic
<swiftbanana[m]>
Oh, I thought 7z could, my bad
<phschafft>
I mean tar was literally made for other usecases.
<swiftbanana[m]>
Well, the issues you describe with tar are not really BeFS specific, are they? =‘)
<phschafft>
tar was made for tapes, and zip was made for floppies.
<erysdren>
i foolishly backed up some large directories into tar.gz files, not thinking much of it
<erysdren>
now i have 8+gb tar.gz files which are hugely annoying to open.
<phschafft>
hm.
<erysdren>
they just take absolutely forever and chew a bunch of CPU to browse
<erysdren>
because it's gotta decompress the whole thing to get me a file listing.
<swiftbanana[m]>
Oh? I thought tar and zip just came from different OS
<swiftbanana[m]>
Yeah that the issue with external compression
<phschafft>
swiftbanana[m]: no. the internal structures are for different types of media.
<erysdren>
i mean yes swiftbanana, different eras and different intentions.
<erysdren>
tar files don't have a central file directory, you gotta parse the whole thing linearly to get a complete file lust
<erysdren>
tar = Tape ARchive
<erysdren>
list**
<phschafft>
and e.g. the problem erysdren has wasn't a problem when it was designed: the device was reading in all that data anyway and was way slower than any decompression (if the decompression was in fact not even handled by the drive itself ;)
<swiftbanana[m]>
Ok
<swiftbanana[m]>
Make sense
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<erysdren>
TAR files were perfect for tape drives back in like, the 70s and 80s haha
<phschafft>
zip on the other hand has the data ordered in a specific way to minimise the number of times you need to swap floppies if you have a multi-volume achinve.
<erysdren>
yes
<swiftbanana[m]>
Hum
<phschafft>
I would think that today we would... go with something completly different. ;)
<erysdren>
shrug.
<erysdren>
zip files are still the quickest to open and browse with modern tools if you have a huge, multi-gigabyte one.
<PulkoMandy>
For tar, you have to be careful which implementation you use, not all of them store extended attributes, and not all of those which do use the same format
<phschafft>
erysdren: that may be the case.
<erysdren>
i should take some time to decompress those tar.gz files, then recompress them as zips
<erysdren>
its just annoying busywork
<PulkoMandy>
The simple fact that "tar" is actually 3 or 4 different formats is enough reason to avoid it really...
<erysdren>
indeed
<phschafft>
I mean zip is also a number of diffrent parts.
<erysdren>
PKZIP is not really a moving target, tho
<PulkoMandy>
I don't know about 7z support for extended attributes, never checked it
<phschafft>
personally I always enjoy .a and .warc ;)
<erysdren>
very very domain specific eh
<swiftbanana[m]>
Hm, I mean, having to normalize paths with tar to avoid mischevious files is enough for me to want tonavoid tar entirely but sometimes you don’t get a choice
<swiftbanana[m]>
*
<Habbie>
swiftbanana[m], is that not a problem with other archive types?
<phschafft>
erysdren: not really.
<swiftbanana[m]>
I don’t think so?
<swiftbanana[m]>
Can you have ../../file.txt stored in a zip file?
<swiftbanana[m]>
You def can in a tar
<erysdren>
i didn't know that
<phschafft>
I mean, you can in most if your implementation doesn't check.
<swiftbanana[m]>
Hum
<phschafft>
even if the specs disallow that most formats can store dots and slashes in filename parts.
<swiftbanana[m]>
Ok
<phschafft>
and if your implementation just makes them a long string and passes them to the OS things happen^TM.
<swiftbanana[m]>
Well I mean in tar it’s allowed in the spec x)
<swiftbanana[m]>
So at least it’s supposed to be forbidden in zip files
<phschafft>
yes, but I think from an implementation standpoint it hardly makes a difference. you need to handle the case anyway.
<swiftbanana[m]>
In tar you can even have absolute paths =‘)
<erysdren>
damn lol
<phschafft>
same thing.
<erysdren>
phschafft: can you store anything other than code objects in .a?
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<erysdren>
or anything other than archived website data in .warc
<erysdren>
?
<HaikuUser>
hello!
<erysdren>
welcome!
<phschafft>
erysdren: yes, and yes.
<erysdren>
weird
<phschafft>
erysdren: e.g. .deb files are .a
<erysdren>
i thought .deb files were zip files
<phschafft>
and in fact .a is specifically an *a*rchive. all the code related stuff is extentions.
<phschafft>
not it's an .a with some tar inside.
<swiftbanana[m]>
I thought deb files where tar files
<phschafft>
(I did NOT design that, just saying how it is)
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<phschafft>
swiftbanana[m]: on the inside, but not the outside.
<swiftbanana[m]>
Rofl
<phschafft>
I mean it makes sense in that it allows to seek to specific parts.
<phschafft>
it's not like one tar file inside. it's a number of components and some are tars.
<phschafft>
using .a here is not the worst idea, as otherwise they would have needed to come up with yet another container format.
<swiftbanana[m]>
Actually, apart from the compression algorithm, is there really a better way to store stuff in a generic archive file than the way zip files are doing (like, having a file index and per-file compression)?
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<phschafft>
also .a files are specifically made to be ASCII-safe if the content is ASCII.
<swiftbanana[m]>
("Architecturally" speaking)
<phschafft>
swiftbanana[m]: sure. I mean you can share blocks or you can even have virtual blocks, ...
<phschafft>
basically an archive is not much different from a filesystem.
<phschafft>
and if you think about filesystems that are meant to be write-once-read-many like ISO that becomes even more obvious.
<phschafft>
but if you want to have an write-many-read-many archive, how is it different from a filesystem?
<phschafft>
the main difference is what kind of media they are optimised for (like tape, floppy, hard drive, SSD, or as a subarchive ('file')).
<phschafft>
which changes stuff like the policy on allocation.
<phschafft>
tar can append without re-writing anything. ZIP requires parts to be rewritten.
<swiftbanana[m]>
Interresting, but, using a full-fledged fs as an archive, wouldn’t that mean having to write an entire driver instead of a simpler deserializer?
<phschafft>
what's the difference?
<swiftbanana[m]>
The complexity? Firing shots in the dark here
<phschafft>
I mean you can write something that will just scan the directory and write out the data in a basically linear way. that specifically easy with FAT-ish filesystems (including bfs) as they have the inodes inside the directories.
<phschafft>
just scan over all the directories and for each file write it to your target directory.
<phschafft>
doesn't sound very diffrent from unpacking a zip file to me.
<swiftbanana[m]>
That’s an interesting idea
<phschafft>
I mean if you want to do single operation at a time (extract, add, ...) then you can ignore most of the complicated stuff like multi-process parallel allocation of blocks ;)
<OscarL>
swiftbanana[m]: squashfs can also store Haiku's extended attributes well enough (at least in my modest testing): see "pkgman search squashfs_tools".
<OscarL>
after installation (and possibly a restart because the newly added mimetype doesn't gets picked up till then for some reason), double clicking a squashfs file should open in Expander. Or in Beezer, if you installed that, and set it as the preferred app for that filetype.
<swiftbanana[m]>
Nice
<OscarL>
Would still be nice to be able to just mount .sqfs files, and have Beezer be able to create such files (has open/decompression support only for now at least).
<OscarL>
I think there surely must exist some fuse-squashfs driver that could more or less easily be ported, but that's way out of my league :-)
<OscarL>
Also.... As everytime LaTeX gets mentioned around here... I *have* to mention "Basser Lout", a lighter weight, and easier to read IMO, alterative to TeX, which seems to never have become popular enough.
<OscarL>
Pe has some basic but decent support for it, at least :-P
<Habbie>
this is not the best document to learn it from, i hope
<Habbie>
but i haven't found a better one yet
<phschafft>
erysdren: I think you are a bit like me in that regard. once one find something new we are keep to check out the syntax and/or the data structures;)
<erysdren>
yeh :3
<erysdren>
and thanks habbie
<OscarL>
(upon installation, docs lands on /boot/system/documentation/packages/lout/)
<phschafft>
and my guess is that if you get a new device the first thing you do is to turn it around and check out the connectors it has ;)
<OscarL>
note to self... nightlies' haiku_loader.hpkg ain't no good for loading beta5 :-D
<OscarL>
good thing I keep two separate installs on this drive, lol.
<Begasus[m]>
;)
<Begasus[m]>
haven't looked at the issue there, aside from the missing symbol
<OscarL>
pheew, back on track. nothing than manually moving .hpkg and deleting activated_packages can't solve (till it doesn't :-P)
<OscarL>
now, instead of having to patch cpuid (as seems it was also necessary for llvm21)... is there a chance of getting the builders install updated instead?
<Begasus[m]>
that's up to mmlr and kallisti5 (@kallisti5:matrix.org) I think :)
<OscarL>
(if builders won't be compatible with current beta5, I might as well remain in nightlies otherwise)
<Begasus[m]>
it's been mentioned a few times I think
<Begasus[m]>
isn't it time for beta6 yet? :P
<swiftbanana[m]>
Beta 6 when =p
<OscarL>
hopefully not before the Disks icon gets "re-added" to the Desktop's drill menu :-)
* swiftbanana[m]
got banned from this channel
<swiftbanana[m]>
(Is there a way to disable the default system theme’s slight gradient?)
<OscarL>
the 2-bands "gradient" on buttons and some menues getting on your nevers? :-P
<swiftbanana[m]>
Yes and no
<Begasus[m]>
OscarL I hope they come back
<OscarL>
swiftbanana[m]: one way could be using the "flat" control-look from the Appereance app.
<Begasus[m]>
already missing config and system in nightly
<swiftbanana[m]>
I mean I do like them, apart from some minor graphic discrepancy, but I’m trying to achieve an older look for a project
<swiftbanana[m]>
s/discrepancy/discrepancies/
<swiftbanana[m]>
The flat control look?
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<OscarL>
I don't miss those, but not having *any* volume on that "top" menu is annoying. I cannot not use "Show Disks icon" (have way too many volumes otherwise), but the Disks icon is almost always obscured by some other window, so I can't use it for drill-down :-(
<OscarL>
^ (was for Begasus[m])
<scanty>
good morning, etc. i'm not saying the whole thing this time :-)
<OscarL>
swiftbanana[m]: Appearence app, "Look and feel" tab, "ControlLook" setting, options are "Default", "Flat", and "Be".
<OscarL>
good Sunday, scanty (at least I think it is Sunday :-P)
<swiftbanana[m]>
Hum
<scanty>
hey OscarL. i think it's Sunday as well. But who knows.
<OscarL>
swiftbanana[m]: if you don't see flat... perhaps you don't have "haiku_extras" installed?
<nekobot>
• Begasus (bbe3e3a2): rocksndiamonds, bump to 4.4.0.5 (#12931)
<swiftbanana[m]>
Aaaaaah
<swiftbanana[m]>
Will try to install this package right now
<OscarL>
swiftbanana[m]: yeah. Both "Be" and "Flat" come from that package, not on by default, sorry for the confusion.
<phschafft>
ControlLook vs. ControlLock.
<phschafft>
thanks brains for autocorrecting and killing context that way.
<swiftbanana[m]>
@_oftc_OscarL:matrix.org thanks a lot that was exactly what I wanted =')
<OscarL>
phschafft: you got me re-reading my lines for some of my inevitable typoes (not even weaging glasses yet, so... all is a bit of a blurrer than it should :-D)
<OscarL>
"weaging" instead of wearing... there we go... much more like my usual self :-D
<swiftbanana[m]>
I too like to weag clothes
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<OscarL>
that's wearing clothes with a hotdog stuffed in one's mouth, right?
<swiftbanana[m]>
Wight
* OscarL
seems to be getting slightly better at this "English" thing, then :-P
<swiftbanana[m]>
Seems like it =p
<Llampec>
XD
<nipos>
Does anyone know if there is a way to add a additional context menu entry to a BTextView?
<nipos>
I'd like to show a "Copy Link" item if the user right-clicks a link within the BTextView,but rewriting the whole MouseDown() function for it is too much additional code,that's not worth it.And _ShowContextMenu() is a private function :/
<OscarL>
heh, humdinger sent a patch adding a BContextMenu, but for a BOutlineListView subclass. Seems he had to add both MouseDown() and _ShowPopUpMenu().
* OscarL
likes when UIs open menus and stuff on MouseUp(), not Down(). But BeOS/Haiku has been always a bit quirky on that regard.
<swiftbanana[m]>
(While I am here making my system looking older, do anyone know if there is a way to change the icons to be the ones from BeOS or something of that vibe?)
<swiftbanana[m]>
s/looking/look/
<nipos>
Yeah,that really doesn't answer my question,but thanks.
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<OscarL>
(remmanents of supporting using the UI with a single-mouse button, I guess)
<OscarL>
swiftbanana[m]: I *think* you should be able to change at least some of the icons (the ones from the FileTypes preflet), but AFAIK, there's not "global-icon-theme" support.
<nipos>
By the way,OpenIndiana with Mate desktop also opens menus on mouse down.Only Windows does it on mouseup.The idea is that you can navigate to a item while the mouse is down and let it up at the item you want to activate.
<OscarL>
swiftbanana[m]: with many files having their own icons either as attributes and/or resources, and most likely already packaged in the .hpkg... I don't think it would be trivial, unless someone creates an entirely separate "icon abstraction layer" (with support for overriding icons, and such).
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<OscarL>
nipos: I see. welp... I just find it way too error prone for my taste. granted... I'm spoiled by late 90s early 00s "golden era" of desktops UIs (and in particular, the variant used with Delphi and C++ Builder's VCL, visual component library).
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* OscarL
misses a good RAD tool like 2000s Delphi.
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<erysdren>
OscarL, what does RAD mean in this case?
<koorogi>
rapid application development
<OscarL>
rapid application development
<erysdren>
ahh yes
<OscarL>
I got spoiled by being able to very quickly do a full UI visually, and then double-clicking on buttons/menu-items and such to write the logic (and/or further refine the UI by editing the .dfm files, if I really wanted)
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<OscarL>
not having that crutch, I'm pretty useless around gui code :-)
<OscarL>
bjorkintosh: I know, I used to use FPC back in 2003, but I never could love Lazarus enough as much as I did Delphi.
<erysdren>
just sucks that there isn't anything resembling a "native gui toolkit for linux" (as ridiculous as that sounds) because there are a bunch of competing standards, Qt vs Gtk and now X11 vs Wayland for a slightly lower layer on the debate.
<bjorkintosh>
OscarL: think of Delphi as BeOS and Lazaraus/FPC as Haiku
<erysdren>
and now it seems like average people (on the Windows side) don't trust Win32 GUI apps anymore or something
<bjorkintosh>
erysdren: yes there is. html :-D
<erysdren>
yeah, true
<OscarL>
erysdren: Borland had a Linux version of Delphi, at some point... Kylix... was kinda awesome, if undercooked. Too bad there wasn't really a market for it.
<erysdren>
if you wanna write something truly cross platform seems like web is the way to go
<OscarL>
bjorkintosh: I wish, but Haiku is still elegant, Lazarus always felt like the "linux cousin" of Delphi... you know.... the one held together with ducttape and prayers.
<bjorkintosh>
well you say you haven't touched it since 2003, right?
<bjorkintosh>
perhaps, like Haiku, changes and improvements have been made since that time.
<swiftbanana[m]>
Qt works well tho, but cross plateform gui design is hard, every os / DE has different philosophy
<bjorkintosh>
yes, which is unfortunately why electron is so effective.
<bjorkintosh>
and I _hate_ electron.
<bjorkintosh>
we don't need that bloated shit. we shouldn't normalize that bloated shit.
<swiftbanana[m]>
Cannot blame you for that
<erysdren>
too late, it's already normalized
<swiftbanana[m]>
Only Electron app I like is VSCode
<OscarL>
(I tried Lazarus a couple of times in modern times in more well supported platforms than Haiku, and still didn't liked it enough. I rather use Delphi 7 still)
<bjorkintosh>
rebol, squeak/pharo and tcl/tk are the closest I came to easy cross platform gui development.
<swiftbanana[m]>
Don’t speak of tcl you fool, you will wake it up from its slumber
<OscarL>
would love to have a "Delphi-like, Haiku-only, BLayout-first" GUI editor/RAD thought, that would be awesome :-)
<erysdren>
but yes, Wayland only, which is a bummer for me using an X11 desktop
<OscarL>
still better named than "BlueEyedOS" :-D
<swiftbanana[m]>
[bjorkintosh](https://matrix.to/#/@_oftc_bjorkintosh:matrix.org)tellement that to my coworker that works with it all day, maybe it will bring her some soothing x)
<bjorkintosh>
your co-worker uses tcl?? that's badass!
<bjorkintosh>
what for?
<swiftbanana[m]>
Not by choice ah ah
<swiftbanana[m]>
For a operator training tool
<bjorkintosh>
what field is this?
<swiftbanana[m]>
s/a/an/
<swiftbanana[m]>
Spaaaace
<bjorkintosh>
I see.
<swiftbanana[m]>
Basically the idea is to have something simulating the system with specified scenarios so the operator can learn without breaking the system and our jobs =‘)
<bjorkintosh>
and it works nicely?
<swiftbanana[m]>
Yep it does
<swiftbanana[m]>
Quite a nice piece of software
<erysdren>
Tcl/Tk is neat. i tried it a while back when i wanted to make a cross-platform GUI thingy
<erysdren>
the language threw me for a loop
<erysdren>
tbh
<swiftbanana[m]>
I find the language to be sorta quirky to my taste, but hey I’m not the while world
<nekobot>
• OscarL (167ead0b): cpuid: try to fix build on builders using older beta5. (#12933)
<erysdren>
i think Haiku has an XMPP service somewhere
<erysdren>
i'm not sure
<erysdren>
i was running an XMPP server on my website, but the server cert broke and i haven't fixed it yet (cuz nobody used it)
<swiftbanana[m]>
Insert obiwan gif that’s a name I haven’t heard in a long time…
<erysdren>
i actually managed to get 3 friends on it, as a possible Discord replacement
<erysdren>
but yeah, didnt work.
<erysdren>
nobody wants to leave the comfort and convenience of Discord.
<swiftbanana[m]>
Wait, I confused XMPP/Jabber with some old winamp style audio player xD
<erysdren>
:P
<erysdren>
XMMS?
<swiftbanana[m]>
Yeah I never got anyone out of the mainstream chat apps
<swiftbanana[m]>
Yep
<swiftbanana[m]>
XMMS
<swiftbanana[m]>
Now that’s a name I haven’t heard in a long time
<erysdren>
someday Discord is gonna go down in flames or start charging people to maintain servers. i'm absolutely sure of it. the issue is where will people go? how will i stay in contact with all my friends there? my own little discord community which has 100 members?
<erysdren>
troubling thoughts for sure
<glassnerves>
I dont use Discord, just Telegram.
<glassnerves>
but I want to escape this mess
<glassnerves>
and use something not too noise
<erysdren>
i also have a lot of those friends on Signal, but as a backup only
<erysdren>
i don't use Telegram
<swiftbanana[m]>
There are options, like Matrix or other stuff I have somewhere on a note layong around
<erysdren>
i never could find any Matrix client i enjoyed using
<erysdren>
though, similar issue with XMPP tbh
<swiftbanana[m]>
I have a big community of friend that I mod for and we have contingency plans in case things go awry
<erysdren>
the closest i found is Gajim for PC and Conversations for android
<erysdren>
(for XMPP)
<swiftbanana[m]>
Yeaaaah XMPP is more MSN level of niceness x)
<swiftbanana[m]>
* is more like at the MSN level
<erysdren>
XMPP has issues if you wanna run a "server" type of thing. it has "conference" channels but they aren't equivalent to Discord servers.
<swiftbanana[m]>
BeShare =p?
<erysdren>
i don't know much about BeShare but i was interested in exploring it as an option, as long as i could find a way for my non-Haiku friends to use it
<erysdren>
i assume you can self-host servers there? or no?
<swiftbanana[m]>
Yeah from what I saw you can self host
<erysdren>
i also thought along similar lines using AOL Instant Messanger (using BeAIM as the client and retro-aim-server as the server)
<erysdren>
however, there are no good modern AIM clients for Linux.
<erysdren>
Pidgin started as an AIM client but doesn't support it anymore
<swiftbanana[m]>
But it’s more like if IRC had mutated to become a file sharing tool
<erysdren>
i see
<swiftbanana[m]>
Which is cool, but not discord-like
<erysdren>
i was also looking into those old VOIP services like mumble
<erysdren>
apparently its a huge pain to host and admin though
<swiftbanana[m]>
Yeaaah not that great
<swiftbanana[m]>
But manageable
<swiftbanana[m]>
It’s not as smooth
<glassnerves>
I miss MSN
OscarL has joined #haiku
<swiftbanana[m]>
I do sometimes ah ah
<swiftbanana[m]>
Dintou know Revolt?
<erysdren>
it just sucks that all the documentation on retro-aim-server, when it comes to Linux clients, just says "run the Windows client from 1999 under Wine"
<swiftbanana[m]>
*
<erysdren>
(either official AOL Instant Messenger or others)
<swiftbanana[m]>
There is also Spacebar
<erysdren>
i'm fine with text chat alone, but i know most of my friends would not feel good without some form of voice chat
<glassnerves>
MSN was revived with some black magic project that I forgot the name