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<scanty>
any devs around? i have a question about BMessage
<phschafft>
why not just ask the question and see if anyone can answer it?
<scanty>
ok. if i need to use a BMessage in a pinch, is it better to do BMessage *m = new BMessage(...), use m, then delete m, or should i do BMessage m(...), then use m
<phschafft>
not a C++ developer. but isn't that just alternative syntax for the same thing?
<scanty>
both pieces of code accomplish the same thing, i just don't know which one is the "proper" one to use.
<phschafft>
I feel like the second one. but again, not a C++ developer.
<scanty>
i'm on the fence, which is why i'm asking.
<phschafft>
the second one feels more C++-ish to me.
<phschafft>
just not sure if there are any side effects.
<erysdren>
that's not the same thing
<phschafft>
maybe the first allocates in heap, and the second on stack?
<erysdren>
correct.
<scanty>
yes, it's a stack vs. heap problem
<phschafft>
ah, fun we figured that out. :)
<erysdren>
for something like a BMessage, i'd probably use it on the stack
<scanty>
so, method #2?
<phschafft>
I mean the stack is often to be preferred. specifically if you have a scope that very closely matches the object's life time.
<erysdren>
yes
* phschafft
nods to scanty.
<scanty>
cool.
<scanty>
thanks guys :-)
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<scanty>
ok stack it is.
<scanty>
the message has a tiny lifetime.
<phschafft>
:)
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<phschafft>
I think it's time for me.
<phschafft>
and thank you erysdren for your input.
<scanty>
indeed.
<scanty>
much appreciated.
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* janking
is idle: BRB
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<janking>
hello
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<nekobot>
• magnetProgramming (8d8ef51b): notes: bump to 2.3.1 (#12909)…
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<HaikuUser>
trying to install haiku to the same media the iso was written to, as this is the only disk wiany free space. the install succeeds but i canno make the esp boot ef to choose the partition with my install. how do you do that? i also ran the makebootable and bootmanager bu tthey i think do vbr stuff IDK the mbr is not found by this bios to be bootable fwiw
<HaikuUser>
ple pm set the efi loader's target
<HaikuUser>
please help me set the efi loader's target
<HaikuUser>
i have btx64.efi open in diskprobe
<HaikuUser>
*bootx64.efi
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<HaikuUser>
I will have to come back
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<HaikuUser>
hi there
<erysdren>
hi
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<gordonjcp>
morning
<erysdren>
good morning gordonjcp
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<phschafft>
morning. :)
<gordonjcp>
erysdren: good morning
<gordonjcp>
phschafft: servus :-)
<phschafft>
:)
<phschafft>
erysdren gave me some good input yesterday. so maybe I can hve a little sprint later today.
<erysdren>
no probs
<erysdren>
actually its almost 6am here and i should probably sleep...
<phschafft>
you know me, I'm in full support of sleep and naps ... all the time. :)
<gordonjcp>
erysdren: eastern US?
<erysdren>
central
<phschafft>
one of the strange questions that came from the discussion was what happens if I have a vector that spans axis with different dimensions. like one length and one time.
<phschafft>
how would the length of such a vector be defined?
<swiftbanana[m]>
You have to define a norm yourself
<swiftbanana[m]>
There is no canonical norm in this case
* phschafft
nods.
<phschafft>
I mean it's a unit error. you get something like sqrt(m²+s²)
<swiftbanana[m]>
You can use something like the norm that we use in relativity, like sqrt(x^2 + c^2*t^2)
<swiftbanana[m]>
With c the speed of light
<phschafft>
hm...
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<phschafft>
that somehow makes sense.
<swiftbanana[m]>
It sure does ah ah
<phschafft>
the other way I thought about it, more from a signal processing perspective: consider a step to the side (length) to be a step of one sample, as well consider a step foward (time) to be a step one sample as well.
<phschafft>
which naturally only applies if your space is quantised for all elements of the vector.
<swiftbanana[m]>
Yeah, then you work in a dimensionless space and all is good
<phschafft>
exactly.
<swiftbanana[m]>
But the result of your norm operator depends in the sample size, which can be perfectly acceptable depending on the field
<phschafft>
I mean it will depends on what you need the value for. e.g. if you want to do motion detection for compression you might want something else than if you want to find the correct spot in RAM.
<phschafft>
yes, exactly.
<erysdren>
well, i'm off to bed. cya l8r phschafft
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<phschafft>
it also, at least in it's most simple form, depends equidistance sampling.
<phschafft>
nachti erysdren!
<swiftbanana[m]>
Actually, even if your space is not quantized, you are allowed to normalize your values to a scale that makes sense
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<phschafft>
hm, yes. I mean in the end it's just a multiplication with a factor on that level.
<phschafft>
and that factor can contain any mixture of units.
<swiftbanana[m]>
Yeah
<swiftbanana[m]>
Depending on the problem to solve, fine tuning such factors can lead to a better result than using the quantized sample number
<nekobot>
• Begasus (7831408f): algol68g, revert to 2.8.4, rebuild for postgresql (#12911)
<phschafft>
fo me the question came up when mentally defining the vector type. I think I will for now only have one shared unit for all elements to reduce memory requiements.
<nekobot>
• Begasus (7c36e4a4): asio, revbump, drop boost requirements (#12907)
<swiftbanana[m]>
Hum, in which context are you defining a vector type?
<swiftbanana[m]>
Is it for generics or is it for a specific usecase?
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<phschafft>
I talked with erysdren yesterday about framebuffers and drawing to them. so that is the direct context. but I would prefer to define a type that can be reused in other contexts as well.
<swiftbanana[m]>
Yeah, understandable
<swiftbanana[m]>
But for the most generic vector type if think you can only define inner summation and external product
<phschafft>
I have three slots of user data in the object. if I need more I need to allocate more. so my idea was to store the unit in the first slot and then have slot one, or slot one and two for values. for a 1D or a 2D value with unit(s) basically.
<phschafft>
allowing some basic math with it will surely help e.g. drawing stuff.
<phschafft>
but I think addition and multiplication are the most important ones here.
<swiftbanana[m]>
I believe scalar product, norm/length and other schenanigans should live in something else I believe (like templates, external function, subclasses, etc. but that depends on the language and the architecture of course)
<swiftbanana[m]>
Maybe the unit can be store in the type?
<swiftbanana[m]>
*stored
<phschafft>
I think that would in the end take up more .text space.
<phschafft>
and is less flexible.
<swiftbanana[m]>
Yes but you woudn’t sum a (meter, meter) vector to a (meter, second) anyway
<phschafft>
I also wonder if there should be a difference between a one-element vector and a number with a unit.
<phschafft>
yes.
<phschafft>
naturally adding two vectors requires a check that it actually works.
<swiftbanana[m]>
But, well, without knowing the big picture as you do, maybe I am not really being relevant ah ah
<phschafft>
which gets a little bit more complicated if you consider non-normal units that include a scalar factor.
<phschafft>
e.g. adding meters to kilometers.
<phschafft>
swiftbanana[m]: I think you are. at least you got some good ideas.
<swiftbanana[m]>
Yeah, I come from a physics background, so I have already struggled with the design space around fitting units and vectors in a type system =‘)
<phschafft>
;)
<phschafft>
hm.
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<phschafft>
I think we'll have T&K now. maybe I come back after that with more questions and/or updates.
<swiftbanana[m]>
(T&K?)
<phschafft>
Tiger & Kuchen (Tiger and Cake)
<swiftbanana[m]>
Oooh, is a sweet cake?
<phschafft>
it is always a sweet cake if you can share it with a tiger.
<phschafft>
see you in a little bit.
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<HaikuUser>
I tried to grow the bfs from the iso instead, but resizefs refused (the disk system does not support resizing) even though I manually enlarged its partition under bfs (making its excuse lame). I guess that's an unimplemented case. So I used Installer on a large partition and then externally deleted the original partition. With this the efi loader boots the large bfs partition. all is well. I wonder when did haiku copy my personal files
<HaikuUser>
to the new drive.
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<HaikuUser>
this /dev/net/idualwifi7260/0 is refusing to work, mac is 00..00
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<HaikuUser>
already ran install-wifi-firmwares.sh and SoftwareUpdater
<HaikuUser>
they say I should boot with bios, but I think I need something to do with my MBR
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<HaikuUser>
currently I can only load an uefi .efi that comes with the haiku iso, because my firmware is able to find that, but it is not able to find the mbr
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<HaikuUser>
I mean it has a checkbox to try to boot legacy bios but it is coming up empty
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<HaikuUser>
I also tried refind but nada
<Habbie>
refind won't give you legacy boot
<HaikuUser>
thanks i just installed keycursor, starting up
<Habbie>
i 'solved' my touchpad problem with a cheap wireless usb mouse
<Habbie>
well, not a cheap one, but a small one. it's a bit older. these days they're also actually cheap
<HaikuUser>
keycursor is working!
<Habbie>
hooray
<Habbie>
maybe i should install that too
<HaikuUser>
I share an usb-dongle-wireless mouse with my roommate but now i cannot use it
<HaikuUser>
it is not mine
<HaikuUser>
keycursor goes to Preferences in the menu
<HaikuUser>
I tried to find mbr installer in haiku but I am not finding it
<HaikuUser>
I find setting for active partition, but that was not effective to boot
<diver>
there is /bin/writembr
<HaikuUser>
thanks!
<HaikuUser>
it was written ok
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<HaikuUser>
the first mbr came from the iso ,was not detected, i wipefs-d the iso offset, still not detected though. then in diskprobe i copied an mbr but it wasnt detected either. i try this 3rd mbr
<HaikuUser>
I think I try to reboot
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<B2IA>
(AGMS) Hmmm, good point. Maybe have a UserBootScript in the boot disk, that suddenly disappears when the mount happens. The open file should still work, just that after the mount, settings and other files are now from your special home directory.
<B2IA>
(AGMS) And a UserBootScript in your home directory does nothing.
<HaikuUser>
I see
<B2IA>
(AGMS) I wonder if you also have to reload the packages from the new home directory, if you have any there.
<diver>
maybe you will need to create a job file to mount it in /system/settings/etc/launch/mount_home
<B2IA>
(AGMS) Fun to try, but weird things could happen.
<diver>
this is untested
<B2IA>
(AGMS) Something that multiuser would iron out (find bugs in), when there are different home directories and assocated configuration files and packages.
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<HaikuUser>
Iwonder if this job could put /bot/system/packages on that partition too... like a bind mount
<HaikuUser>
the main thing is to persist user data between reinstalls and the second idea is if I create 2 partitions I dont want to run out of space in the haiku partition because resizing later might not be possible
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<Begasus[m]>
food ...
<HaikuUser>
I try this mount_home job now
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<scanty>
B2IA: AGMS still there?
<B2IA>
(AGMS) Hi scanty.
<scanty>
was looking at some of your z80 code (from a while ago).. i thought this was cute:
<B2IA>
(AGMS) Got the BeShare your-name-has-been-mentioned sound effect.
<scanty>
ld hl,0
<scanty>
add hl, sp;
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<scanty>
because there is not instruction to load it directly.
<B2IA>
(AGMS) Hmmm, is there a move hl,sp instruction? Checks the opcode web site...
<scanty>
it's covered in the 2024.12.16 post
<B2IA>
(AGMS) Hmmm, add and adc for hl,sp. How generous.
<HaikuUser>
i had to create launch directory for /system/settings/etc/launch/mount_home but during restart it wasn't executed nor is it in syslog. I can manually run the command, when doing manually, the mount is ok, so the command is ok
<scanty>
is there a subtract, too?
<scanty>
(i don't know that mch z80)
<B2IA>
(AGMS) Yes, sbc and without carry.
<scanty>
ok, so that makes sense.
<scanty>
the adress mode you need doesn't exist.
<scanty>
i mean instruction.
<B2IA>
(AGMS) Visit https://clrhome.org/table/ and type sp into the filter box to see all opcodes that deal with sp.
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<B2IA>
(AGMS) HaikuUser is the file marked as executable? Maybe needs a .sh at the end too. If you double click on it does it run? Then likely it's set up correctly.
<HaikuUser>
no
<HaikuUser>
its job
<HaikuUser>
it is a job that diver wrote just a while back here
<B2IA>
(AGMS) You can test it in the command line to see if the "open" command runs it properly. Try /bin/open /system/settings/etc/launch/mount_home
<scanty>
wow this is neat
<B2IA>
(AGMS) Ah right, well try the execute bit in the file permissions (file info box for GUI, chmod command for command line).
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<HaikuUser>
i have similar files in /boot/system/data/user_launch
<B2IA>
(AGMS) Worst case, maybe the command line needs to be something like /bin/bash myfilename
<HaikuUser>
maybe i try copy it there
<B2IA>
(AGMS) Also the current directory in the launcher may not be set to anywhere.
<HaikuUser>
it is read-only file system
<HaikuUser>
for /system/data/user_launch
<B2IA>
(AGMS) Sounds like it is part of a package, a fake file system, if it's read only. Some directories are "shine through" that are writable.
<HaikuUser>
I try another one
<HaikuUser>
brb
<scanty>
B2IA: AGMS: instruction F9... am I missing something?
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<B2IA>
(AGMS) Yeah, that's a package fake file system. Which does run UserBootScript :-)
<B2IA>
(AGMS) scanty, yes, F9 is ld sp,hl
<B2IA>
(AGMS) And only takes 6 cycles.
<scanty>
okay, so that little hack you did is not necessary
<B2IA>
(AGMS) The one other really useful instruction for fidding with hl is ex de,hl. The only way to move hl contents into another register, without doing byte sized LDs.
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<B2IA>
(AGMS) scanty Hmmm, no, if I want to get the stack pointer into HL, that seems to be the best way. F9 does the other direction.
<scanty>
oh whoops.
<scanty>
i certainly *was* missing something :^)
<scanty>
z80 seems a bit more dense than 6502
<B2IA>
(AGMS) And I missed the "ld (_sStackPointer), sp" instruction which could have done it without using HL at all.
<scanty>
hmm good one.
<scanty>
this is a really nice z80 tool. i wonder if i could do the same for 6502
<B2IA>
(AGMS) Then I could have avoided the push and pop of registers, since flags wouldn't be changed, and made all that code into just two instructions.
<B2IA>
(AGMS) Maybe there is a 6502 opcode tool already out there?
<scanty>
haven't seen one like this
<B2IA>
(AGMS) It's just javascript, but very useful!
<scanty>
nice use of javascript
<scanty>
if it's oss, it couldn't be *that* difficult to do for 6502, given the code is flexible.
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<B2IA>
(AGMS) OK, time for brunch and rocket news on YouTube. Maybe ask DeepToaster (the site owner) if he has readable source to the javascript and if you can use it.
<B2IA>
(AGMS) Or maybe it is already readable, I haven't looked.
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<HaikuUser>
I tried to put it in /system/settings/boot/launch but it wasn't launched at boot either
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<B2IA>
(whitepaperkat) hi
<B2IA>
(whitepaperkat) i was able to add info to my files using the beshare info tool
<B2IA>
(whitepaperkat) idk if it works though
<B2IA>
(whitepaperkat) like if other people using beshare can see it
<HaikuUser>
what server are you using
<HaikuUser>
I think this job file was meant to belong to launch_daemon server... (closest looking one I found out with Find... of Deskbar)... man -k launch_daemon and Find... wasn't turning up anything more and in HaikuDepot I only found HaikuUtils so now I'm online reading The Haiku Book about job files
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<B2IA>
(whitepaperkat) beshare.agmsmith.ca
<B2IA>
(whitepaperkat) i made 2 videos on of my desk and a rain storm there mp4 files
<HaikuUser>
thanks
<B2IA>
(whitepaperkat) hi
<B2IA>
(binky) hi
<B2IA>
(whitepaperkat) hows it going
<B2IA>
(binky) myfirsttimehere
<B2IA>
(whitepaperkat) welcome
<B2IA>
(binky) thanks
<B2IA>
(whitepaperkat) but yeah just for the giggles im gonna start sharing videos on beshare
<B2IA>
(whitepaperkat) it will mostly be short clips i recorded with my phone
<B2IA>
(AGMS) Looks like you need to turn on "I'm Firewalled" for BeShare file sharking, whitepaperkat. Or open ports 7000-7009 for BeShare (works more reliably than the first option).
<B2IA>
(AGMS) sharking -> sharing
<B2IA>
(whitepaperkat) gotcha
<B2IA>
(whitepaperkat) I turned it on
<B2IA>
(AGMS) Trying again to download from you, whitepaperkat.
<B2IA>
(AGMS) Not sure if you need to quit and restart BeShare after turning on I'm Firewalled.
<B2IA>
(whitepaperkat) sorry my internet is a bit crappy
<B2IA>
(AGMS) OK, working downloads now. I can put a copy on the bridge BeShare server in case you're not up?
<B2IA>
(whitepaperkat) yes please :]
<B2IA>
(whitepaperkat) also sorry if this is a noob question but is there away to upload files to the haiku bot
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<HaikuUser>
according to docs I am supposed to place the job file in /system/data/launch/ . how do I do that?
<B2IA>
(whitepaperkat) you make a link to it
<B2IA>
(whitepaperkat) haikuuser
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<HaikuUser>
I want it to be outside from /boot/home to begin with... how do i do the linking
<B2IA>
(whitepaperkat) oh
<B2IA>
(whitepaperkat) nvm
<B2IA>
(whitepaperkat) idk
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<scanty>
can anyone point me to the Tracker source code?
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<B2IA>
(AGMS) I've added home movies from whitepaperkat to the BeShare bridge mirror collection, look for beshare:202508* You can also download the files from whitepaperkat directly, so long as you aren't also using I'm Firewalled (opening ports in the router forwarding lets more people download from BeShare, which is what the Bridge computer has).
<B2IA>
(AGMS) Huh, your desktop tower has the USB plugs on top, I had trouble finding a large case without that problem (want to have a scanner on top), top plugs seems to be the style today.
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<gordonjcp>
B2IA: easy enough
<gordonjcp>
B2IA: just move the ports from the top to the front
<gordonjcp>
(everything is simple when you have a grinder and a welder)
<B2IA>
(AGMS) Or rotate the whole desktop by 90 degrees, so the top becomes the side. Need new feet for it though...
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<B2IA>
(whitepaperkat) lol theres 2 of me
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<B2IA>
(whitepaperkat) and new muscle server is up
<B2IA>
(whitepaperkat) oh yeah
<B2IA>
(whitepaperkat) i was able to compile the source code on my vps
<B2IA>
(whitepaperkat) haikushell.net
<whitepaperkat[m]>
Now I just have to figure out some of the settings and switches and whatnot
<whitepaperkat[m]>
And the flags
<whitepaperkat[m]>
It's going to be a bit of a pain to figure out because the documentation is a bit lackluster