<swiftbanana[m]>
LMMS uses FLTK ? Didn’t know that
<swiftbanana[m]>
(What does "moin" mean?)
<swiftbanana[m]>
s///
<erysdren>
morning
<Begasus[m]>
swiftbanana afaik g'morning in some parts of Germany
<Begasus[m]>
some leftover from the German peeps from the BeOS days :)
<swiftbanana[m]>
<3
<Begasus[m]>
k, now I need to double-check if it still uses fltk :P
<phschafft>
for a small subset of germans. over here it's 'Ei Gude, wie?'
<erysdren>
my german teacher in my american highschool taught us that "moin moin" was a decent greeting
<phschafft>
I mean everyone will understand it.
<swiftbanana[m]>
Then, it explains why in some manga I was reading, a certain character’s greeting was "Moins moins", which made little sense to me because I thought it was supposed to be french
<swiftbanana[m]>
But no ones says "moins moins" here x)
<swiftbanana[m]>
s/ones/one/
<phschafft>
but generally it is from those connected to the north sea.
<phschafft>
swiftbanana[m]: ;)
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<Begasus[m]>
hm ... still plays OK without fltk ...
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<Samanth0r>
greetings friendly Haiku community
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<Begasus[m]>
whoot, 6.10.0-beta4 is out :P
<phschafft>
and back.
<phschafft>
we had a lot of wind, so was slow going with my donkey today.
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<bjorkintosh>
your ... donkey?
<Begasus[m]>
not wind from behind then? ;)
<phschafft>
Begasus[m]: I was joking that by the time we are on our way back it will have turned..... I should not have joked about it...
<swiftbanana[m]>
(Version 6.10.0-4 of what?)
<Begasus[m]>
heh
<Begasus[m]>
swiftbanana Qt :)
<Begasus[m]>
afk ... food
<swiftbanana[m]>
Oh of course, should have guessed that
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<phschafft>
mau.
<swiftbanana[m]>
Like a cat?
<phschafft>
don't try to be the cat, be the cat.
<swiftbanana[m]>
Miaou
<phschafft>
so, how about your schedule today?
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<Anarchos>
strange : i have one wifi connection (connected to internet) and one wired connection (connected to a router but not to internet). It seems every network program i try to use, use only the wired connection . Only when i unpluc the cable, does Web+ find internet
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<Habbie>
does the wired router announce a default gateway?
<Anarchos>
Habbie it is intended not.
<Habbie>
sorry, i don't know if that is yes or no
<Anarchos>
the wired router must not have default gateway.
<Habbie>
ok. but does it, in DHCP, to your Haiku, announce one, or not?
<Anarchos>
Habbie i will look at this trouble later sorry, i think something is misconfigured. I was just wondering what is the haiku behaviour when 2 connections are available, one connected to internet and the other not.
<Habbie>
ok
<Habbie>
i don't know what haiku does
<Habbie>
but if i have to guess, if only one offers a default route, the right thing happens
<Habbie>
but if both do, it's hard for an OS to make the right choice
<swiftbanana[m]>
[phschafft](https://matrix.to/#/@_oftc_phschafft:matrix.org) are you asking me?
<Habbie>
i literally noticed the same problem on Debian tonight here, where wifi was fine but i was doing upgrades on the separate wired router
<Habbie>
swiftbanana[m], i don't know what you did but that messages looks messed up
<Habbie>
oh just looks like @phschafft but the bridge made it super verbose
<nagerst>
The trees finally turned yellow and the sun set completely before 22:00
<swiftbanana[m]>
Isn’t it supposed to be on the 21 or something?
<nagerst>
Just another 6 months of snow and suffering, then spring! =D
<nagerst>
swiftbanana[m]: i do not live on the equator. The arctic works a bit fifferently due to the tilt of the earth and all that.
<nagerst>
but still nice, as i can try my new snowmobile
<nagerst>
eventually
<swiftbanana[m]>
Ah, if you’re near the Artic circle then it makes sense
<nagerst>
Begasus[m]: Howdy my friend. Any good news?
<phschafft>
snow? where? snow time is fun time!
<swiftbanana[m]>
Yeah but if it means 2h of sun a day I can understand the moodyness xD
<swiftbanana[m]>
22h of sun a day is fun tho
<nagerst>
phschafft: nah we still have 20 degrees in the day (22 C on sunday) currently 13C and HEAVY rain. so winter is coming to the north.
<nagerst>
swiftbanana[m]: 22? lets go 24., just find a mountain or a hight hill in late june, you can do that even below the arctic circle.
<phschafft>
noow snoow? *kitty eyes*
<nagerst>
phschafft: Kiruna has snow on the mountains... is that enough?
<phschafft>
hm...
<phschafft>
I want snow to build snow tigers again.
<nagerst>
I met a snow leopard, and a siberian tiger, but never a snow tiger... what are they like?
<nagerst>
and lots of lynxes
<phschafft>
used to build snow tigers for our cats. but now that is no longer an option with the climate catastrophe.
<nagerst>
what climate catastrophe?
<swiftbanana[m]>
Climate change
<phschafft>
nagerst: actually I was going for snow amur tigers.
<swiftbanana[m]>
20 years ago there was snow in winter where I live, now there is none
<nagerst>
two years ago it was the coldest on record since 1941, the ice on the norht pole is growing. Oh yeah, the new ice age scare, i get it... i bet if we all pitch in and do something the north will not be covered by kilometers of ice again and the sahara will stay sand. =D
<nagerst>
swiftbanana[m]: weather is not climate.
<phschafft>
given that we see that the winter temps over here are going up and up, and the have less and less rain in summer that is very much climate.
<nagerst>
Northern archtic ice masses is growing, thus you can now walk on the San Francisco "mudflats" that used to be submerged most of the time. the maldives are growing despite the eu giving them 30 billion eur to evacuate to india due to rising sea levels. hehe
<nagerst>
hotter weather=more rain+snow
<nagerst>
easy math
<swiftbanana[m]>
Climate is long term, I am speaking of a 20 year change that I can observe with my own eyes and that is backed by scientific research I don’t know what to tell you
<nagerst>
colder weather means more deserts and more ice.
* Anarchos
is cold booting a new desktop by netbooting.
<phschafft>
swiftbanana[m]: it's just that type of people that claim 'we need just 20 years more data' for... 80 years now.
<nekobot>
• pulkomandy (544dbbd3): Fix Renga build on beta 5 for real.…
<nagerst>
swiftbanana[m]: Mine is backed up as well, and i am far older than you my friend. The climate thing comes up all the time due to politicians not wanting to talk about the real issues. The green party in germany was started as a cover group for german coal mining, and they got all nuke plants shut down. Causing much more environmental damage.
<phschafft>
nagerst: ah, so you are the generation that will not have to deal with the problems you caused, so you are cool to just dismiss the facts...
<nagerst>
In sweden the green party started as the swedish nazi party and merged with the farmers league workers party and did the same
<nagerst>
yeah ill be dead before you know it.
<phschafft>
nagerst: your politics just don't change the facts.
<nagerst>
i personally did not cause it.
<phschafft>
yes, yes, 'nobody' did.
<swiftbanana[m]>
I don’t think this conversation is leading us anywhere, I’m done here.
<nagerst>
yup this has nothing to do with haiku
<nagerst>
so i am out
<phschafft>
swiftbanana[m]: yes, you are right. let us move back over to the other channel.
<phschafft>
nagerst: then have a good night.
<nagerst>
thank you
* Anarchos
build a nighlty iso instead of haiku.image. Not surprising the net boot doesn't worked !
<Anarchos>
what is that ? First time i encounter this error : Error while writing to file `/myfs/system/packages/noto-20240201-1-any.hpkg': No space left on device
<gordonjcp>
Anarchos: presumably you are surprised, because your disk is not actually full
<Anarchos>
gordonjcp oh i jammed 'haiku.image' instead of '@nightly-raw'. Problem solved
<Anarchos>
gordonjcp this core i7 is net booting haiku for its first time :)
<Anarchos>
i have 500G nvme and 1T hdd. How should i partition to get the nvme last longer ? I intend to install ubuntu, and run Haiku inside VMs later
<gordonjcp>
Anarchos: nice
<gordonjcp>
this sounds very much like the spec of my desktop machine, it runs Ubuntu and I run Haiku in qemu
<Anarchos>
gordonjcp it is a Dell Optiplex 7040
<gordonjcp>
Ah, this is an HP Z4
<gordonjcp>
GTX1650 which I think Haiku supports now!
<nagerst>
gordonjcp: VESA, not support
<nagerst>
but it works
<gordonjcp>
nagerst: oh, I thought Haiku had support for recentish NVidia GPUs?
<Anarchos>
gordonjcp formatting th whole disk as a BeFS partition renders it unsuitable for boot :/
<nagerst>
no the last fully accelerated nvidia card in 2d was the 7950GT/Ultra (same card, just that one manufacturer overclocked it and called it ultra)
<gordonjcp>
Anarchos: yeah it would, you need a partition table
<swiftbanana[m]>
Are recent AMD linux drivers harder to port to Haiku than Nvidia ones?
<nagerst>
gordonjcp: never thought anyone would do nvidia after rudolf
<swiftbanana[m]>
If that is the case that is wild xD
<gordonjcp>
swiftbanana[m]: it's an interesting question
<gordonjcp>
nagerst: I noticed he waded in on that in the comments :-)
<gordonjcp>
swiftbanana[m]: there might be licensing reasons why they can't be ported across
<x512[m]>
swiftbanana: Official open source Nvidia drivers are easier to port because it are designed to be portable. AMD kernel drivers are hard-coded to Linux.
<swiftbanana[m]>
That is such a sad thing to hear
<gordonjcp>
swiftbanana[m]: a very oversimplified view is rather than just saying "here are our proprietary drivers, take it or leave it" NVidia have said "here's a bit more info on how the chips work internally and here are the binary blobs that you upload to make them work, and here's how to poke its registers into life"
<gordonjcp>
x512[m]: hello!
<x512[m]>
FreeBSD is porting AMDGPU drivers using Linux kernel compatibility layer.
<nagerst>
the reason that nvidia drivers might be easier for the short term that is that amiga boys did much of it of the linux boys that then turned into nuveau and killed the original nvidia effort.
<nagerst>
AMD open sources almost everything
<x512[m]>
AMD do not provide low-level documentation. Just dump of code.
<gordonjcp>
x512[m]: what's involved in getting your NVidia drivers working, in Haiku? Like could I reasonably expect to boot it on bare hardware and get play accelerated Quake? :-)
<nagerst>
x512[m]: also true, but the amdgpu opensouce driver is FAR better than nouveau at this pint
<gordonjcp>
nagerst: still doesn't have OpenCL
<x512[m]>
nagerst: On Linux. We are not Linux.
<gordonjcp>
which is one of the things keeping me from ever even considering AMD again
<gordonjcp>
AMD GPUs are supported for about two years, then "haha go buy a new one if you want it to be anything other than a framebuffer"
<gordonjcp>
but also, CUDA is a hard requirement
<x512[m]>
Currently new Nvidia drivers conflicts with Qt that use old version of OpenGL based on OSMesa that is obsolete and removed in upstream.
<swiftbanana[m]>
gordonjcp this is extremely funny because I got the opposite route on linux =‘) but ofc Haiku is not linux
<nagerst>
i didnt need opencl before, i need good video speed and high resolutions for my desktop. for 4k qhd-bd viewing 1920 is not going to cut it, and video lines
<gordonjcp>
swiftbanana[m]: opposite route in what way?
<gordonjcp>
nagerst: sounds like you need an NVidia card :-)
<nagerst>
x512[m]: i know, sorry
<swiftbanana[m]>
Well I got full AMD because better support on linux
<nagerst>
i have only amd cards in my modern machines.
<gordonjcp>
swiftbanana[m]: ah, but AMD is basically completely unsupported on Linux
<gordonjcp>
swiftbanana[m]: it's 0% functional
<nagerst>
In my old 8x Xeon 900, i have a voodoo5, and an aureal vortex2 as well as 4gb ram.
<gordonjcp>
nagerst: classic
<nagerst>
Beos all the way on that badboy
<gordonjcp>
swiftbanana[m]: no OpenCL = no video editing
<gordonjcp>
swiftbanana[m]: although everything serious uses CUDA, so it's kind of NVidia or GTFO
<nagerst>
I of course also have two hauppage bt 878 tv cards
<nagerst>
in the old machine
<gordonjcp>
nagerst: they were good in their day
<swiftbanana[m]>
Hmm, my Rx 560 is still working perfectly fine though? But I guess I’m not doing serious video editing
<gordonjcp>
I guess it depends what you're using
<x512[m]>
No open source CUDA implementation for Nvidia hardware is currently available.
<gordonjcp>
you need CUDA for Resolve to work
<nagerst>
gordonjcp: an massive step up from the 848
<gordonjcp>
but, Resolve isn't on a
<gordonjcp>
but, Resolve isn't on Haiku, so it's off-topic
<nagerst>
I should try running haiku on my 8xeon to check wheter 32bit beos apps still works, i have undreds of games, and every pre-release like quake3 and worms
<swiftbanana[m]>
I mean, the latest official radeon driver for my Rx560 was released on 2025-08-07, so I do not really understand what you mean, but maybe I am missing the point
<Anarchos>
gordonjcp wow this optiplex 7040 has 8 cores at 3.4GHz :)
<swiftbanana[m]>
Oh okey, I just learned of ROCm, I think I get it know
<swiftbanana[m]>
Optiplex 7040? Fancy
<Anarchos>
swiftbanana[m] yes, i win it for free at work :)
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<nagerst>
Is it good or is it intel garbage that they are trying to get rid of?
<alphalpha>
Hi all! when i install haiku beta 5 now, can i update to beta 6 and R1 with the software updater or is it recommenden to do a new install when a new version of haiku gets released?
<nagerst>
optiplex 7040 is an awful machine. I built a 44core machine with 256gb ram and 16thssd storage in a gorgeous silverstone case, with all fans being noctua and it only cost me.... jeez. a lot.
<nagerst>
alphalpha: there is no guarantees given afaik
<nagerst>
it seems likely, but not given
<nagerst>
but most likely
<alphalpha>
ok thx
<nagerst>
alphalpha: but i have no authority to promise that
<alphalpha>
k
<gordonjcp>
swiftbanana[m]: you won't have GPU compute acceleration with that, though, that gets dropped very quickly by AMD
<gordonjcp>
swiftbanana[m]: because they want to keep the churn of new cards going
<nagerst>
i do not think there will be a beta 7, but a rtm release at that point
<gordonjcp>
I really need to get back into getting modernish Go to run on Haiku
<nagerst>
gordonjcp: interesting since nvidia used to be the complete enemy of open source
<nagerst>
change is good in this case
<nagerst>
if true
<gordonjcp>
nagerst: I don't really care about whether the drivers are open-source or not