<B2IA>
(DaneGSR) Fun to see how many familiar faces there still are in BeShare.
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<B2IA>
(DaneGSR) Waddlesplash I''ve downloaded B5, attempting to get it installed. Right now I'm running B2, and it doesn't seem to want to mount the ISO.
<B2IA>
(DaneGSR) I was going to mount it, then use installer to actually install B5 onto a separate partition. But the mounting doesn't happen if I double-click the iso, and if I try it through Terminal, it appears to mount it but the list of drives in Disks gets messed up.
<phschafft>
morning.
<B2IA>
(DaneGSR) Howdy
<waddlesplash>
the ISO contains multiple partitions
<waddlesplash>
check in DriveSetup to see if the others appear
<waddlesplash>
but it may be easiest to just boot B5 directly
<B2IA>
(DaneGSR) I do see multiple entries in DriveSetup, yes
<waddlesplash>
you should probably be able to mount the main partition from there then
<B2IA>
(DaneGSR) Trying it
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<B2IA>
(DaneGSR) "Can't mount, read only file system error
<waddlesplash>
the Anyboot format is kind of difficult to work with this way
<waddlesplash>
why not just boot Beta5 directly?
<B2IA>
(DaneGSR) You mean, create an install USB stick?
<waddlesplash>
yeah, probably easiest to work that way
<B2IA>
(DaneGSR) OK, will redownload to my Mac and go through the steps.
<waddlesplash>
DaneGSR: though, you should be able to install even if it can only be mounted read only?
<B2IA>
(DaneGSR) I think things got messed up when I tried to mount the ISO from Terminal. Right now if I open Disks, it shows just the contents of the ISO and none of my other drive partitions.
<waddlesplash>
weird
<B2IA>
(DaneGSR) Jumping over to the Mac
<B2IA>
(DaneGSR) Dlling
<B2IA>
(DaneGSR) Flashing
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<B2IA>
(DaneGSR) booting to stick, bbiab
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<Begasus[m]>
re
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<PulkoMandy>
yes, but it's in a dependency of a dependency of a dependency of wqatever I'm trying to do and... I can just work on something else in the meantime anyway
<waddlesplash>
that shouldn't matter?
<B2IA>
(Dane) Hey, made it to B5!
<waddlesplash>
:)
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<B2IA>
(Dane) Butler catsup
<waddlesplash>
Dane: how's Beta5?
<B2IA>
(Dane) Pretty good so far! I made the mistake of double-clicking to install some of the TuneTracker packages rather than just dropping them into the packages folder, and now have some zombie links on the desktop I can't delete. Any idea how to zap those?
<waddlesplash>
you can probably just delete them
<waddlesplash>
oh, they're not deletable? strange
<waddlesplash>
what happens when you try?
<B2IA>
(Dane) "Cannot be moved or deleted from a read-only volume""
<waddlesplash>
double-clicking ought to work anyway, it just opens HaikuDepot and gives you an Install button
<waddlesplash>
You can try rebooting and see if they disappear I suppose
<B2IA>
(Dane) They appear to be broken links.
<B2IA>
(Dane) I did that once, still there.
<waddlesplash>
what does Terminal show on Desktop?
<B2IA>
(Dane) Looking to see what they point to
<B2IA>
(Dane) sec
<waddlesplash>
just run an "ls -l"
<B2IA>
(Dane) It shows just the good links, not the zombies
<waddlesplash>
this may be a Tracker bug
<B2IA>
(Dane) Checking what the zmbies point to
<B2IA>
(Dane) Link to, when clicked, actually takes me to the correct item, so that's odd.
<B2IA>
(Dane) (in "Info")
<waddlesplash>
the icons may just be wrong then, somehow
<B2IA>
(Dane) If I knew where the zombie icons resided in the directory structure, I'd just go and delete them
<nekobot>
• pulkomandy (2a3236e4): tree-sitter: add disabled recipe for new version…
<scantysnax>
good morning, good afternoon, good evening, and good night :-)
<B2IA>
(Dane) Got 'em zapped
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<B2IA>
(Dane) AGMS I got everything moved over to B5 and it's testing out fine so far!
<B2IA>
(Dane) Butler catsup 200
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<OscarL>
Tracker getting "ghost files" on Desktops if you have symlinks to other files/folders, and the targets get updated "behind the scene" sounds like: https://dev.haiku-os.org/ticket/13409
* OscarL
waves to scantysnax on the back.
<erysdren>
hi OscarL
<OscarL>
hey there erysdren! :-)
<OscarL>
meh... once I decide to try QEMU on Windows... and I downloaded a "too new" version :-/ (last one that supports Intel HAXM for acceleration seems to be QEMU 8.1).
<waddlesplash>
why not use WHPX?
<OscarL>
that requires enabling Hyper-V, right?
<OscarL>
(never ever used that)
<waddlesplash>
no, can be used separately
<waddlesplash>
but it does use the hypervisor exclusively I think either way
<waddlesplash>
or maybe not? been a while since I tried it
<scantysnax>
OscarL: nice to see you.... been a few days :-)
<OscarL>
scantysnax: yeah... flu got me good. now without flu sympthoms, but with some really annoying persistent fatigue :-( (never had this before... getting old, I guess :-D)
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<B2IA>
(Dane) Has the way ftp password is set up changed since, say Beta 2?
<B2IA>
(Dane) Found it
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<OscarL>
No luck so far with QEMU on Win10 host. My Haiku install from an external SSD seems to get stuck at the rocket icon, no matter what I try.
<Habbie>
well, what do the logs say
<OscarL>
still stuck with -accel tcg, so... unless I manage to properly enable whpx... this would be pointless anyway.
<OscarL>
(except for forcing me to re-learn the little qemu-fu I already forgot)
<OscarL>
Habbie: logs? what are those? :-P
<Habbie>
OscarL, chopped wood
<Habbie>
good for burning
<Habbie>
(after sufficient drying)
<OscarL>
still need to properly setup the serial port output (one of the things I knew how to do from Linux, but still need to figure out on qemu on a win host)
<Habbie>
oh serial is a good idea
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<OscarL>
also, first time trying qemu on win, so... no idea what to expect :-D (was hoping to be able to squeeze a little bit more performance out of the VMs from this N4020)
<Habbie>
qemu is not the way to get performance
<Habbie>
unless it's accelerated, like with kvm on linux
<Habbie>
not sure qemu on windows can be accelerated
<waddlesplash>
OscarL: did you give it enough RAM?
<OscarL>
Habbie: apparently it can, via Intel HAXM up to version 8.1, and via whpx on newer versions.
<OscarL>
waddlesplash: 3072 MB should be enough, I think.
<Habbie>
i was just thinking about something intel H X that i remembered from the android sdk and qemu
<waddlesplash>
yes, probably
<Habbie>
my chromebook has 2GB and mostly runs fine yes
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<Habbie>
waddlesplash, while i know you were confident, i wish i had data for you about that usb crash fix, but i've barely touched the machine recently
<waddlesplash>
it's almost certainly fixed lol, the codepath by which it could happen is gone
<Habbie>
yeah i know :)
<OscarL>
(I'm probably just not using the right settings/parameters. Will continue using a mix of VBox/VMware till I can figure this out.)
<OscarL>
now... if Santa Claus could grant me a wish and find me a developer that could write a Haiku equivalent for the acpi-cpufreq driver from Linux... I would run bare metal quite more often :-)
<swiftbanana[m]>
I’m using Haiku with 1GB of ram so 3 GB should be fine
<waddlesplash>
OscarL: what hardware do you run on that can use it? isn't N4020 new enough that it can use C-states?
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<OscarL>
Depends on context. I was usually fine with VMs with 2 GB in the past, but then started using RAMFS for HaikuPorts work-dirs, and doing LTO-enabled builds, so... 3 GB is now my "minimum" (needed 4 GB for some larger package which name now escapes me).
<OscarL>
waddlesplash: acpi-cpufreq works for all the Atom netbooks I have, and also for my Phenom II X4 "power house".
<waddlesplash>
the Phenom is definitely too old for C-states
<waddlesplash>
the Atoms should be new enough? I think?
<OscarL>
acpi-cpufreq does P-states, no C-states.
<waddlesplash>
ah
<OscarL>
changes freq and voltages.
<waddlesplash>
we have a P-states driver
<OscarL>
*massive* power usage difference.
<waddlesplash>
it should work for most anything from the last decade
<waddlesplash>
or more
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<OscarL>
well... none of my machines can use either of the p-state drivers we have :-(
<waddlesplash>
too old?
<OscarL>
and I'm just too dumb to port the driver myself :-)
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<waddlesplash>
check the CPUID I suppose
<OscarL>
not much to check. our drivers are for newer stuff.
<waddlesplash>
the driver was written in 2013...
<waddlesplash>
most things past that should be supported I'd think?
<OscarL>
I have beein using the Atom N450 with Haiku since 2013. And the Phenom since I enter the world of quad cores it in.... 2020, IIRC.
<waddlesplash>
ah, N450 is definitely too old
<waddlesplash>
but the N4020 should work?
<Habbie>
haiku does C-states but not S-states, did i get that right?
<Habbie>
oh wait
* OscarL
will reboot to double check things on this N4020.
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<PulkoMandy>
Atom are based on the Pentium III core. Because they were released later than other cores doesn't mean they got all the same features
<Habbie>
modern atoms are not p3-based i presume, but i understand what you're saying
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<OscarL>
The Celeron N4020 does indeed loads intel_cstates and intel_pstates, and CPU frequency does seems to change (albeit I don't really trust the values Haiku reports, as it tends to report non-existing values on at least Atom N2600 and on AMD E-450 cpus).
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<OscarL>
that quick test reminded me of another reason why I don't do bare-metal more often on this N4020 netbook... no touchpad :-D
* OscarL
needs to file tickets for those odd cpu freq values.
* Halian
hands OscarL his trackball
<OscarL>
in any case, my point is... having an equivalent to acpi-cpufreq would benefit *a lot* of old hardware that otherwise can run Haiku just fine.
<OscarL>
Halian: oh... never used one of those... wonder if I would love it, or hate it :-D
<Halian>
That reminds me, I tried installing Haiku hrev58841 on my Acer Nitro 5 laptop and it didn't see the SSD
<Halian>
OscarL: it's an acquired taste, but if^H^Hwhen you acquire it, there's no going back :3
<waddlesplash>
OscarL: the difficulty isn't acpi_cpufreq itself, but all the timer stuff surrounding it
<waddlesplash>
ACPI CPUidle does not have "invariant" TSC
<waddlesplash>
so we would have to change a bunch of stuff around the system_time() implementation
<OscarL>
I see. I guess starting from FreeBSD's take on that driver won't be much easier, then, right? (I remeber taking a quick look but... lack of skills :-/)
<phschafft>
waddlesplash: thanks for the info.
<waddlesplash>
OscarL: no, because these are unrelated problems, it's just one causes the other
<waddlesplash>
well. actually if you only wanted alternate P-states during CPU idling, then maybe we could make this work
<waddlesplash>
we'd just need to reset the TSC to the expected value on wakeup
<waddlesplash>
... probably by using the HPET or something like that to synchronize
<waddlesplash>
OscarL: I don't really think it's worth my time to work on this directly, but maybe I could point you in the right direction?
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<OscarL>
waddlesplash: maybe not me specifically [1], but if you could layout a road-map of sorts.... that surely would help. Perhaps could be a nice GSoC project (if we ever get in again).
<OscarL>
[1] (I mean... would love the details, not sure I'd advance much anyway)
<OscarL>
perhaps I can convince Anarchos to give it a go :-D
<waddlesplash>
I don't think it'd actually be that difficult, just a lot of trial and error
<waddlesplash>
basically, you need a time source besides the TSC
<waddlesplash>
and then after waking up you need to reset the TSC to the value it's supposed to be at
<waddlesplash>
the ACPI cpuidle module, we already have one don't we?
<waddlesplash>
it's just disabled
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<OscarL>
mmm. now I can't boot with VBox. This WHPX thing might have screwed my setup :-)
<Halian>
I believe the technical term is, —Scheiße
<OscarL>
Seems I learned to read German all of a sudden! :-)
<OscarL>
booted. just in slow-motion, lol.
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<swiftbanana[m]>
As a leaf falling / bootloader slowly appears / I learned german.
<waddlesplash>
OscarL: if you get the driver ported, then the system will still boot, all timers and the system clock will be wrong though
<Habbie>
and i'm like, with the right hardware, it totally can
<OscarL>
waddlesplash: what I'm reading is that I can become a time-warping wizard! :-)
<waddlesplash>
lol
<Habbie>
but only to the past
<waddlesplash>
you probably want to try and port a C-states driver first
<waddlesplash>
rather than a P-states driver
<waddlesplash>
the first thing to check is if your CPUID declares C-states support
<waddlesplash>
if it does, then we probably just don't use it because the CPUidle driver requires invariant TSC
<waddlesplash>
that could be hacked around to test
<OscarL>
Will collect CPUID info on each machine next time I boot them, then.
<OscarL>
I /should/ be able to write an "msr tweaker" driver/app for my undervolting needs (for Athlons/Phenoms and E-450 CPUs at least), but more complex stuff sadly escapes me.
* OscarL
better logs out before falling asleep on the chair.
<OscarL>
Have a good one, everyone. Nice to read you all again.
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<phschafft>
erysdren: added push and pop synthetic opcodes. boahh... that was more work than expected.
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<HaikuUser>
hello
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<phschafft>
hello-or-not.
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<Halian>
swiftbanana[m]: <3
<Halian>
20250909161538 <Halian> That reminds me, I tried installing Haiku hrev58841 on my Acer Nitro 5 laptop and it didn't see the SSD ← I hope it's just due to firmware misconfiguration, but I'm worried that changing that will render my Windows 10 installation (the primariy OS on that laptop) inaccessible
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<Habbie>
NVME? SATA? eMMC?
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<nekobot>
[haiku/haiku] a1b4eeff4d7f - freebsd_network: Overhaul MII attach code.
<nekobot>
[haiku/haiku] 368d09fdac9f - freebsd_network: Clean up attach logic and separate USB logic.
<B2IA>
(AGMS) Hi Dane, sorry I missed you earlier on BeShare. Busy fixing window sills outside, but it looks like you got your Haiku packages sorted out (I'd uninstall the rogue ones and reboot).
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