<HaikuUser>
oops ... should've set my name properly ... how about now ?
<HaikuUser>
nope
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<KenjiUmino>
ok ... that seems to have worked ... my IRC is a bit rusty ... have not used it in years
<OscarL>
hello there KenjiUmino :-)
<KenjiUmino>
hi oscar
<KenjiUmino>
how are you ?
<OscarL>
first time trying Haiku, or old timer checking things up once in a while?
<OscarL>
can't complain much, hope you're OK too :-)
<KenjiUmino>
well ... I would not exactly call myself an "old timer" ... I have been cheching on haiku on and off for a few years now - but it's still fairly new to me
<OscarL>
in any case... welcome (back)! hope you enjoy the ride.
<KenjiUmino>
thanks ... I'm having a good time so far - haiku seems to be pretty useable by now ... I just installed it on an old asus aspire one netbook ... and I am surprised that more stuff works than not
<OscarL>
nice. Atom based netbook, I assume, right? (have a couple of N45x around here)
<KenjiUmino>
this netbook is pretty much the worst case scenario because it has this intel GMA "made by PowerVR" iGPU that apparently nobody managed to make a proper FOSS driver for ... so the poor atom cpu has to do all the graphics
<KenjiUmino>
on top of the other stuff
<OscarL>
ah! an Atom N2600!
<KenjiUmino>
yep ...
<OscarL>
Indeed, those PowerVR igpu are pretty cursed :-D
<OscarL>
Have one such netbook here too (without the screen). Was a pain in the rear to make Haiku run reliably on that thing at some point in the past, but things got better, thanksfully.
<KenjiUmino>
for some weird reason, I kinda like it tho ... I pull this thing out of the drawer every once in a while to tinker with it and see what it can still do ... It wasn't too bad with manjaro XFCE on it ... but a rolling distro like manjaro is not suited for a computer that only gets used once in a blue moon
<OscarL>
KenjiUmino: at least the N2600 is a real dual-core (with hyperthreading, even, LOL), and power consumption is great compared to the previous N450/N455.
<KenjiUmino>
yeah ... I got an atom 230 based nettop kicking around somewhere ... 1 core, 2 threads ... that's it ...
<OscarL>
KenjiUmino: I have Win7, VoidLinux, and 32 and 64 bits installs of Haiku on the N2600.
<OscarL>
(win7 only because I was planning to use it as a 720p video player, and that's the only OS with "proper" drivers for the cursed GMA :-D)
<KenjiUmino>
the atom 330 is like two 230s glued together and it flies by comparison ... heck, you can almost play portal 2 on it if you manage to dig up a GPU for it
<OscarL>
VoidLinux because I was thinking in using it as a "mini server" (to host a local copy of wikipedia, a forgejo install, and things like that).
<KenjiUmino>
never tried void linux ...
<OscarL>
I'm far from a proper Linux user (beein loving/"hating" it since 1998), but I kinda like Void. Or rather... I try to avoid more bloated distros, specially given my very slow hardware :-)
<KenjiUmino>
I've heard about void before ... but never dug deeper ... sounds interesting ... independent distro and all ...
<KenjiUmino>
the first linux I tried was like suse 7.5 or thereabouts ... because I was so fed up with windows ME ^_^
<KenjiUmino>
and then I found some disc from a computer magazine ... you know ... the annual "try linux" issue when they don't have anything else to write about
<OscarL>
my first was SuSE 5.1 (or was it 5.2? memory fades).
<OscarL>
yeah, I used to buy PC magazines just for the CDs :-)
<KenjiUmino>
I actually managed to get to a working desktop ... felt like the best thing ever ... but then what? those computer magazine discs are always missing most of the packages and downloading packages from the internet via dialup modem just didn't happen ... so I went back to windows ME pretty quickly ...
<KenjiUmino>
a bit later, I tried again with a suse 13 disc ... got a lot farther this time ... and we might already have had DSL so that made things a lot more manageable ... but it didn't "click" yet ...
<KenjiUmino>
tried different ubuntus and all every once in a while ... until I stumbled across mint 13 ... that's when It finally clicked ...
<KenjiUmino>
mostly because stuff "just worked" ... no driver issues ... no borked websites ...
<OscarL>
early Linux days were fun! (if by fun one means loving to have to set monitor modelines, and such :-D)
<KenjiUmino>
indeed ...
<OscarL>
has come a long way, yet... never made me "fall in love" as BeOS did... thanks to one of the PC magazines that came with BeOS R5 PE in it! (late 2000s)
<KenjiUmino>
ok ... I missed out on that one ... only learned about BeOS because of haiku ...
<OscarL>
(not late "2000"s, but meant late in the year 2000)
<KenjiUmino>
by the way ... I saw a PPC mac clone (UMAX Apus 3000) for sale on ebay recently which had macOS with some sort of skin or theme mod so it looks like BeOS ..
<OscarL>
BeOS R5 has a PPC version..., maybe it was actually running that?
<OscarL>
(but I have no clue about mac hardware, so...)
<KenjiUmino>
the screenshot showed the "about this mac" dialog ... so I am pretty certain it was running MacOS ...
<OscarL>
yeah.... doen't sounds like BeOS then! :-P
<KenjiUmino>
I did not buy it because I already have such an Apus 3000 ... but since then, I wonder what was up with the theme thing
<KenjiUmino>
not much of a mac person myself and we didn't have macs in our house nor did I know anyone with a mac back when classic mac OS was relevant ...
<OscarL>
(only once I ever saw a real mac down here in Argentina... one of the little ones in late 80s, early 90s)
<OscarL>
gotta disconnect for a bit. in case we don't cross again today... nice to meet you, and happy Haikuing, KenjiUmino!
<KenjiUmino>
ok ... see you later
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<OscarL>
Habbie: just a silly attempt at a joke... with "cart" an "sulky" being more or less in the same category (wheeled transport), and /me playing dumb(er) about not understanding you meant some cartdrige.
<scanty>
you mean PM, right?
<OscarL>
Hey there Begasus[m], scanty, and the rest of the usual suspects.
<Begasus[m]>
no AM (dogs are mostly up by then) :)
<scanty>
ah okay, oh hi OscarL!
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<OscarL>
scanty: I guess Begasus[m] is comparing "wake up time" and not current clock (would be a bit weird if it was 5 AM in Belgium right now :-D)
<scanty>
i was up around 4AM and found myself hungry.
<scanty>
OscarL: yes, that is exactly what i was thinking.
<scanty>
OscarL: still working on my ASM highlighter for Pe.... having some problems, so it's not ready yet.
<Begasus[m]>
current time is almost 5:30 PM yes, but I wasn't refering to that :P
<scanty>
Begasus[m]: right, that's why we were confused
<OscarL>
scanty: no problem. just give a shout when you're ready, and we'll open a PR for it.
<scanty>
cool.
<scanty>
now i have to locate a proper tranformer for my NES
* OscarL
needs to go out to try to find out some open WiFi. Very windy outside... hope it doesnt' blows the bytes away! 8-D
<OscarL>
read you all a bit later!
<scanty>
hehe
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<scanty>
well... i have some code here that crashes on 32-bit, but works fine on 64-bit.
<scanty>
or rather, i should say, hangs.
<Begasus[m]>
krunner broken on Haiku .... fatal error: KWaylandExtras: No such file or directory
<Begasus[m]>
but shouldn't be too big of a problem, not meant to be used here
<scanty>
clearly the stack needs to be bigger, and possibly not limitted to 1024 bytes.
<scanty>
i remember the current stack is stored in %sp
<scanty>
he may have limited it for some reason, to which we are both unawares.
<Skipp_OSX>
maybe you should be allocating on the heap instead
<Skipp_OSX>
too early in boot process?
<Anarchos>
scanty i have the explanation if you want, i can copy you the commit message in private
<scanty>
sure
<Anarchos>
Skipp_OSX yes it is in the 'openfirmware' part so i guess it is for the bootloader
<Skipp_OSX>
I get that, but do you have access to the heap?
<Anarchos>
Skipp_OSX i think so, but i do'nt know the gcc flags to log which function uses how much stack
<scanty>
i'm trying to find my SPARC book
<scanty>
i think it might be in storage as well.
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<andreaa>
I apologize for all the challenges today and in the past... I never challenge, in case I withdraw all the challenges and have mercy on me... peace and good
<OscarL>
I've done it in several occasions, both ways.
<OscarL>
(think I only broke it once, but mostly due to having a mix of locally built .hpkg, and trying too many things at once)
<OscarL>
and in that case, was able to easly fix the issue by booting from a different partition/usb, and doing some mopping around some .hpkg :-D)
<scanty>
I don't know if it's worth it yet
<scanty>
still on the fence.
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<Anarchos>
scanty i think the over stack usage is due to edid_decode, which got a for loop added in 2022 by Jérôme Duval, 2 years after the stakc limit put by PulkoMandy
<OscarL>
Anarchos: regarding your earlier comment about hard disk activity... if you're running beta5, I would check if /var/log/syslog is getting spammed when you notice the HDD leds go crazy. if so... try killing media_addon_server. I had that one go haywire like that several times.
<scanty>
Anarchos: wow. that's an old one!
<Anarchos>
OscarL no it is due to a live query
<Anarchos>
scanty sparc port is not compiled often :)
<Anarchos>
scanty well i just relax the stack limitation, to compile an image
<Anarchos>
scanty anyway 1840 is far below the 8k stack limit of openfirmware
<OscarL>
Anarchos: understood. I use queries a lot, but not live ones, so I haven't seen them go nuts like that.
<scanty>
I hope that will boot
<scanty>
@Anarchos
<scanty>
but i wonder why nobody noticed in three years
<Anarchos>
OscarL i tried a live query for "filetype=PDF" to get all my pdf at once
<Anarchos>
scanty i read somewhere that the bootloader works but not the rest of the system
<Anarchos>
scanty mmu_man achieved ithat.
<scanty>
right that's what i probably read.
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<scanty>
if we can get obp support, do we get serial out?
<Anarchos>
i think so
<Anarchos>
why ?
<scanty>
just curious to see what is happening
<Anarchos>
i never plugged anything serial besides a serial mouse in the early 90' :)
<scanty>
ah just curious if i wanted to run the machine headless.
<Anarchos>
scanty build_packages/gcc_syslibs_devel-8.3.0_2019_05_24-2-sparc/develop/headers/c++/bits/unique_ptr.h:412:15: error: expected identifier before '__remove_cv' -----> So weiiiiird
<scanty>
that's weird, make clean and recompile just in case?
<scanty>
if you can
<Anarchos>
scanty yes i had some leftovers
<Anarchos>
scanty this one is more serious : ../src/system/libroot/posix/glibc/include/arch/sparc/sysdep.h:21:10: fatal error: bits/hwcap.h: No such file or directory
<scanty>
hrm, i don't like that one either.
<Anarchos>
scanty but there is only /boot/home/HAIKU/buildtools/gcc/libitm/config/arm/hwcap.h in my source tree. Seems an include was not protected by "if not sparc" ....
<scanty>
so you can use that one?
<Anarchos>
scanty not sure. but i see that our sysdep.h was copied from freebsd, so i guess the hwcap was forgotten
<scanty>
i think it's platform dependent
<Anarchos>
scanty i think i need better tackle the errors in chronological order. this hwcap missing was the last error... I forgot my work good practice :)
<scanty>
no worries. :-)
<scanty>
Anarchos: seems it's part of glibc as of 2.42 (from what iam reading right now)
<Anarchos>
scanty progress : the arch/sparc/Jamfile was missing generic_msi.cpp :)
<Anarchos>
now i can compile pci.o !
<scanty>
wow cool
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<Anarchos>
scanty back to this hwca.h file missing for sparc
<scanty>
yes, as far as I know it's used to define some processor flags, etc.
<Anarchos>
scanty i wonder how to find this file ?
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<Anarchos>
so the musl/math/sparc is just missign a Jamfile (and maybe a bit more, but let's begin with the jamfile with generic files)
<scanty>
looks like we need to dive into assembly here.
<scanty>
or maybe not
<PulkoMandy>
Someone replaced the libc math code from glibc with the one from musl
<PulkoMandy>
Does musl even support sparc?
<scanty>
oh hi PulkoMandy
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<Anarchos>
PulkoMandy well i will do what i can
<PulkoMandy>
It seems not according to musl homepage. I sugoest going back to glibc if you don't want to add sparc support to musl, or writing your own floatingpoint implementation
<scanty>
the sparc directory is empty.
<Anarchos>
PulkoMandy so i have to replace all musl ref by glibc in jamfile ?
<PulkoMandy>
Tou have to revert the change that replaced glibc math code with musl one
<Anarchos>
PulkoMandy i hope it is only a commit
<Anarchos>
i will look to revert it on top of my local repo oO
<Anarchos>
PulkoMandy if i understand , nobody tried to compile sparc for ages ?
<PulkoMandy>
Yes
<Anarchos>
ok
<Anarchos>
new challenge cause intel_extreme ivybridge is too frightening to me
<nephele>
why Anarchos?
<nephele>
there is already code in intel_extreme for ivybridge
<PulkoMandy>
i got int running to the point where we need to initialize the mmu some time ago. Then I read Sun documentation on the mmu and found that it is very low level compared to what other architectures do, and a lot of work has to be done by the code (at least on the Ultrasparc 2 I was working on then)
<PulkoMandy>
Now I have newer hardware that should be easier, but it's a big server and I have no space to install it. And it wouldn't make a great haiku machine since it's a server
<Anarchos>
nephele i have only a black screen not sure why and i don't want to mess with registers and burn my screen...
<PulkoMandy>
So I moved to other things. My goal was to find if the arm port issues at the time were specific to arm, these issues have been fixed since. And sparc hardware is old and slow and disappointing
<Anarchos>
PulkoMandy sure, but i will learn a lot !
<PulkoMandy>
Yes, no problem with that :)
<PulkoMandy>
I did the part that was interesting to me, you can do the next one if it is interesting to you
<Anarchos>
i fear that 'git revert <musl commit>' is too simple ...
<scanty>
haha if life were only that good ^_^
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* Anarchos
reverted musl and relaunches a clean compile
<scanty>
good luck :-)
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<OscarL>
Anarchos: just a "side note": last night I've looked at the x.org link you shared for th intel gpu docs. Seems the older stuff it has is for Gen4 (which funnily has that "two VGA devices", like in Gen3 devices).
<Anarchos>
OscarL oh sorry you didn't find gen3
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<OscarL>
No problem, thanks for pointing out that link, in any case :-)
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<OscarL>
This abduco + dvtm thing is working pretty well over ssh! Hope NaGERST will be happy with having them available on Haiku now.
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<Anarchos>
OscarL i discover ssh-copy-id, now i can log into my various computers at home without passwords :)
<OscarL>
always nice :-). I had it setup like that at some point (I just manually copied the keys, coz I'm dumb, and also using Win).
<OscarL>
still need to properly setup things again, after quite a few hardware and OS changes I had here.
<PulkoMandy>
I don't think there ever was a public pdf doc for earlier intel graphics unfortunately?
<OscarL>
liking dvtm+abduco more than tmux, so far (being a neophite to both of them)
<PulkoMandy>
Maybe you can find some info in chipset specific programming manuals
<OscarL>
Perhaps, yes. I should re-read the history of Intel GMA on wikipedia so I don't get confused by codenames (again), and end up chasing the "wrong path" :-D
<Anarchos>
scanty this one i can't understand what is wrong : build_packages/gcc_syslibs_devel-8.3.0_2019_05_24-2-sparc/develop/headers/c++/bits/unique_ptr.h:412:15: error: expected identifier before '__remove_cv'
<Anarchos>
i use "gcc version 13.3.0 (GCC) " but the syslibs headers are for 8.3 => " build_packages/gcc_syslibs_devel-8.3.0_2019_05_24-2-sparc/develop/headers/c++"
<Anarchos>
time to update build/jam/repositories/HaikuPorts/sparc !
<Anarchos>
Begasus[m] how to compile a package with a specific architecture ?
<Anarchos>
i need gcc_syslibs-13.3.0_2023_08_10-1-sparc.hpkg :(
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<Anarchos>
wb mmu_man
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