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<nephele>
So, SetEventMask(B_KEYBOARD_EVENTS) allows off-screen or unfocused views to get keyboard events
<nephele>
I've looked a bit in switcher, but it seems that messages regarding B_FUNCTION_KEY (for example tab key pressed) do not arrive in this context
<nephele>
is this intentional? or is this a bug?
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<Eugenia>
hello all, installed haiku on two of my laptops, only the touchpads are problematic, everything else works fine
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<nephele>
Good to hear. :) for the touchpads you can write a bug report if you'd like
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<dovsienko>
"to fund future improvements in the touchpad support department, consider buying this 100%-compatible Haiku-branded mouse for your laptop" :-)
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<nephele>
dovsienko: you mean like donating to the Inc? :P
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<dovsienko>
yes, like the branded T-shirts and mugs
<dodo75>
Anyone other than me that noticed that Input preferences for Mouse is not stored after closing preference window? running latest nightly.build.
<divad27182>
seems to work for me.
<dodo75>
To repeat. Open Input preference, Change value on Mouse acceleration. Close preferences. Open Input preferences. Now the value is 0.
<dodo75>
My current semi workaround. Open Input preference and change settings, then minimize Input....
<divad27182>
well, I changed acceleration and it stayed changed. Mouse type might matter. Mine reads "Extended PS/2 Mouse 1"
<divad27182>
though I did just crash it. :-) double clicked in double-click area. then right double-clicked, then did Alt-A and it went
<dodo75>
divad27182 :)
<divad27182>
sorry, one more step: press escape.
<divad27182>
it repeated.
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<divad27182>
TextSearch just did the same.
<divad27182>
Pe did too, in the Find dialog.
<dodo75>
divad27182 Strange. I cant repeat that.
<divad27182>
Well.... it is possible I've hacked things.... but it is time to try a debugging...
<divad27182>
OK. I appears it may just be: focus on simple text entry area, right click for context menu, press escape.
<dodo75>
divad27182 LOL... I change changed the Input value more than one tick the value was stored.
<dodo75>
divad27182 the scaling is wrong
<divad27182>
cute... Well, I just crashed DeskCalc... it looks like it may be pressing escape on an application context menu that does it.
<dodo75>
divad27182 omg.... you are in bigger trouble than me now..
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<divad27182>
well, it appears it has to be an input field.... ActivityMonitor won't do it.
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<dodo75>
divad27182 oops ... I killed Vision... context menu and then Escape key
<divad27182>
actually, I am trying to use the non-GUI portions of Haiku.
<divad27182>
good, then it isn't me.
<dodo75>
divad27182 yep.. dont do this on Vision or maybe Tracker...
<divad27182>
well... I crashed tracker once yesterday. Found it to be a good thing: it cleared up garbage mount records.
<divad27182>
But yes, just crashed Tracker: right click, then escape.
<dodo75>
divad27182 I also think Webpositive has a memory leak...
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<Halian>
o/
<dodo75>
divad27182 After 9 hours uptime, one page with haiku website and now Webpositive using 1.14GB of ram...
<divad27182>
does seem a lot.
<divad27182>
Web browser eating memory is not really surprising if the page is a web-app....
<Halian>
Yay, memory leaks >.>
<dodo75>
Restarted Web+ now and it loads Haiku website (Now 46MB memory usage)
<Ellenor>
Web browsers all now have memory leaks. It's just an accepted part of the business.
<Ellenor>
If you do anything about it, you are «restricting innovation».
<dodo75>
Haiku does not need to repeat the current madness...
<divad27182>
frankly, a LOT of web site "innovation" NEEDS to be restricted!
<divad27182>
alas, with javascript, it is all to easy for a "web app" to abandon but not properly release memory. this makes a leak.
<Halian>
Ellenor: :( and also ew
<Halian>
divad27182: hot take: JavaScript was a mistake
<divad27182>
Halian: Arguable. the "Web App" was a mistake.
<dodo75>
Lucky for us... AI will solve everything :D
<divad27182>
AI hasn't for the past 40+ years Why should it now?
<Habbie>
andreasdr[m], hello
<dodo75>
I tried to be ironic...
<Habbie>
dodo75, you were, ironically, misunderstood, much as the AI often does
<divad27182>
People think AI is new. Some fields of AI are so mature people forget they are an AI field.
<dodo75>
LoL
<dodo75>
true...
<Habbie>
AI is not new, but you can't ignore that a bunch of pretty new and big stuff is here now
<Habbie>
(i'm not saying you have to like it)
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<divad27182>
I googled: "haiku" tcsh
<Halian>
divad27182: eh, the two aren't coterminous
<divad27182>
their AI gave me a haiku (poem) about tcsh
<Halian>
Ew, slop
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<Ellenor>
the AI we now know as AI is new, and it needs to die immediately, as it has driven those other fields into obscurity and has also drunk enough water to feed tens of millions of people irrigated maize grown in a hot desert region.
<kallisti5[m]>
I'm going to upgrade our postgresql. Things may be rough for a few minutes 😆
<kallisti5[m]>
fasten seatbelts icon lights up
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<Habbie>
kallisti5[m], good luck!
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<kallisti5[m]>
groans, yeah. I haven't manually upgraded postgresql in a while. Forgot about the whole dump and restore thing 😮💨
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<nephele>
Ellenor: fwif Memory leaks in WebPositive are not intentional. So if you find one (and can trigger it in a specific way ideally) feel free to report a bug so we can fix it
<nephele>
Habbie: still around?
<Habbie>
ish
<Habbie>
speak :)
<phschafft>
cookies?
<nephele>
We talked about dns record before and TLS with that. I am curious if you know of any acme providers that are not US based... i only found one in norway, but that one was bought by some canadion company that seems to just buy companies :?
<Ellenor>
All web browsers have memory leaks, basically without exception.
<nephele>
I kind of want to use acme to remove the need for people to install my root CA to *fetch* mail over IMAP. since mail clients, well, still don't do DANE :D
<nephele>
Ellenor: I don't doubt that. Still, it is a bug if it's in WebPositive...
<Habbie>
if the eu alternatives site does not know it, i do not know it
<Habbie>
i have some dutch friends with the ambition to fix this problem, but -if- they manage, it will take a while
* phschafft
remembers the nick Ellenor somehow....
<nephele>
Hmm, that site only lists buypass, and they are the ones now bought... But looking again the buyer is from NL, not from canada
<nephele>
so that might still fill the criteria
<nephele>
Hmm, not to figure out if i want to use a different cert for IMAP and SMTP :)
<Habbie>
easier to use the same
<kallisti5[m]>
ok. I have one more backup to get working (buildmaster), then I'm going to flip haikuports building back on
<Habbie>
nephele, sidenote, you could implement ACME for your own CA
* phschafft
would say that if a language is turing-complete it must be able to loose memory.
<Skipp_OSX>
I mean a Turing machine has no memory
<Skipp_OSX>
A Turing machine has halting problem I suppose
<bjorkintosh>
isn't a turing machine a state machine?
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<phschafft>
Skipp_OSX: I would say every machine halts eventually ;)
<Skipp_OSX>
It's an infinite state machine single steps until it reaches a sentinel to stop.
<Skipp_OSX>
no, that's the whole point, it doesn't halt, it goes on and on forever, well in theory at least.
<Skipp_OSX>
In the theoretical model that Turing created in his landmark 1939 thesis it goes on forever anyway.
* phschafft
thinks he failed with his humor.
<bjorkintosh>
<phschafft> Skipp_OSX: I would say every machine halts eventually ;) <-- the universe?
<Skipp_OSX>
yes well practically that's true, but not in the mathematical model.
<Skipp_OSX>
anyway I'm working on a more practical halting problem, menu crashing on double free :/
<phschafft>
Ellenor: see! not all software has memory leaks! Some actually has memory ... anti-leaks! it double frees!
<phschafft>
;)
<Ellenor>
yikes.
<gordonjcp>
phschafft: got to be careful
<gordonjcp>
phschafft: I accidentally double-free()ed in a loop
<gordonjcp>
phschafft: this give it so much more memory that it actually bulged the case side a little, so you have to watch out obviously
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<Ellenor>
that sounds dangerous
<phschafft>
uh, yes. better be careful with that.
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<nephele>
Habbie: hmm, what would the idea be to have acme for my own CA?
<nephele>
I mean as such the "CA" is just "a file on my computer" :)
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<nephele>
Hmmm, I guess I can put the root cert of buypass as a DANE recored anchor, that way it is atleast clear that only that cert auth is issuing certs
<Ellenor>
I hope I didn't give you depression, phschafft
<Ellenor>
But yeah, sadly, I'm right. All software, almost without exception, has memory leaks. It's at least true on Unix, it might be true on Haiku, it's definitely true on Windows.
<nephele>
... what's your point?
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<Skipp_OSX>
That we should rewrite it in Rust of course!
<nephele>
Skipp_OSX: RedoxOS? :)
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<phschafft>
Hahaha
<nephele>
phschafft: can i call upon your ancient terminal knowledge? why does pageup in vi behave differently on OpenBSD than on Haiku? In Haiku it moves start/end of line, in OpenBSD it beeps error and then capitalizes one letter under the cursor
<nephele>
i'm guessing the TERM=vt220 in my enviorment has something to do with it :g
<phschafft>
set TERM=xterm and try again.
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<nephele>
i ment pos1 and end, but still. Anyway, no change :)
<phschafft>
you can try cat and then press the key and see if that differs.
<phschafft>
also you can have a look at the terminfo data using infocmp
<phschafft>
and see if you spot any difference.
<nephele>
In Haiku it just prints "H" for pos1, in OpenBSD ^[[7~
<Skipp_OSX>
I suppose the RedoxOS kernel would be a start
<phschafft>
but generally setting TERM=vt220 sounds wrong.
<Skipp_OSX>
If you really don't want memory leaks that is...
<nephele>
maybe we should import the minix3 kernel if we want a microkernel
<nephele>
phschafft: it suprised me a bit. but i also didn't find documentation about this yet
<phschafft>
I mean, the VT220 doesn't have a pos1 nor an end key ;)
<phschafft>
give me a second to boot my Haiku.
<nephele>
this not a Haiku issue i think, but an OpenBSD one
<phschafft>
hm, I see I don't have xxd nor hexdump in my Haiku.
<phschafft>
and cat in the term does strange things.
<phschafft>
you can use cat -A and then enter one key, then return
<Skipp_OSX>
We def have some leaks in Haiku
<phschafft>
it will render the output.
<nephele>
posix sais cat has no options
<phschafft>
and it generates the same codes for me as my konsole.
<Skipp_OSX>
Firefox leaks like a roach motel faucet
<phschafft>
nephele: so? Haiku is not a POSIX OS ;)
<nephele>
;)
<Skipp_OSX>
There goes our US government certification
<nephele>
phschafft: if cat has no options then it *technically* should never implement "--" either, because that's only for commands with options ;)
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<nephele>
Skipp_OSX: don't you mean SuS qualification? :P
<nephele>
I only know that some MacOS versions are certified for that
<nephele>
(of currently active OSes)
<phschafft>
nephele: I fail to see what your point is? cat has -A and cat -A helps you to debug your problem. so why is that now a problem?
<nephele>
phschafft: i'm still working on OpenBSD, not on Haiku >.>
<Skipp_OSX>
US gov is the only reason for those certifications
<phschafft>
then use xxd or hexdump
<nephele>
and OpenBSD has no "-A", and even if it did, i fail to see how this helps with my vi problems
<Skipp_OSX>
big government contracts. That's why Winders is POSIX for example.
<phschafft>
you said that it does not print anything useful on Haiku, and you wanted to compare Haiku to OpenBSD. that is what I understood.
<phschafft>
so in order to compare them you need to collect data from both systems.
<phschafft>
and you said in OpenBSD it reported without the need for -A.
<nephele>
I want to figure out why i can't use pos1 and end in OpenBSD :)
<nephele>
It's not really a Haiku question, on Linux and FreeBSD i could also use those keys, and i am used to using them. so them not working irritates me
<nephele>
I suppose I could install X11, but installing a gui on a mail server feels wierd
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<phschafft>
so?
<phschafft>
I said figure out what it sends, compare that to terminfo.
<phschafft>
if that is off, then you have your answer.
<nephele>
Haiku and OpenBSD have different values for the keys, but how would that help me?
<phschafft>
I also said that vt220 doesn't have the keys in question, so that IS the wrong terminal type, at least strichtly speaking.
<phschafft>
I have _no_ idea what your problem with Haiku is. You came up with comparing the two. I'm just following along.
<phschafft>
if you problem is with OpenBSD only, then please say so and keep other systems out of the question.
<nephele>
I said so severall times...
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<phschafft>
Then everything should be clear by now?
<nephele>
No? it doesn't work regardless
<nephele>
setting xterm did not help, neither did setting "pccon" (which seems to be supposed to be "native" for the OpenBSD console)
<phschafft>
I mean, all that has to be done is to set a terminal type that has a matching definition to what the terminal is actually doing.
<phschafft>
that is why I said that if you are sure you got the right one, and it is still not working, then you can have a look at the definition.
<phschafft>
if there is no correct definition around, then it might be a bug. But that is more for a OpenBSD channel than for a Haiku channel.
<kallisti5[m]>
ok. haikuports riscv64 is running. Waiting on the x86_64 , x86_gcc2 builders to be flipped back on
<nephele>
I don't understand the definitions there at all. But yes, asking in OpenBSD now. Curiously the pos1 key works but not the end key
<phschafft>
also OpenBSD is like 13 years younger than my /ancient knowledge/. ;)
<nephele>
I consider all terminal knowledge ancient magic
<nephele>
and if not ancient then still magic, but like the evil sorcerer magic :P
<phschafft>
on my system `infocmp -L1` provides a nicer listing.
<phschafft>
nephele: still, it's too new for me ;)
<nephele>
well, it's mostly the same key=value stuff. but the values don't look like anything the keys produce when tested with cat, so i must be missing something
<phschafft>
if they don't match, then something IS off. ;)
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<phschafft>
for exampe here it lists 'key_f1=\EOP,', and that is actually what the terminal emits.
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<nephele>
all the things in the output statr with \E[ but cat has ^[[ ... Is that just cosmetic then?
<phschafft>
\e or \E is common notation for escape. and ^[ is the control notation for it.
<phschafft>
just like ^C is for control+c, so is ^[ for control+[
<phschafft>
and the escape key is nothing but a shortcut key for control plus [
<nephele>
I send myself test mail phschafft, on localhost. It did not arrive. But now i have notifications that the mail is delayed
<nephele>
so i wonder what i broke for that :g
<phschafft>
;)
<nephele>
I think i should get on with setting up the acme challenge, and then setup dovecot first
<x512[m]>
kallisti5: Did riscv64 builder progress?
<phschafft>
also note that ^[[ is known as CSI (Control Sequence Introducer), or C1 code 0x9B.
<divad27182>
Does anyone know what pkgman would be saying "*** failed! : Operation would block" ?
<divad27182>
s/what/why/
<phschafft>
CSI is a common term in terminal docs, the C1 codes are more uncommon.
<nephele>
it means the operation would block (A system call would block, and hence returned early). Maybe your network is not connected?