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<Begasus[m]>
g'morning peeps
<Begasus[m]>
x512 will do later
<Begasus[m]>
x512 mind if I push the changes here to the PR, or just add the change in a comment?
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<OscarL>
'lo Begasus[m], good day :-)
<Begasus[m]>
Hi OscarL !
<Begasus[m]>
pip comments on the forum :)
<Begasus[m]>
biab ... coffee :)
<OscarL>
here just for a minute (heading to bed)... just to comment that I have around 40 recipes clean ups in queue... just need to stop messing around with old hardware, before commiting those.
<OscarL>
Saw something on the forums... if things are pip installable as is... not much we should be doing from HaikuPorts side of things, I think.
<OscarL>
(certainly not adding packages that require 3.12, as that would mean we need to package a lot of stuff besides the "final" app in question)
<OscarL>
My intention is to have only 3.10 packages before we make the switch to a newer Python version as the "default". (I'll be already be dropping 3.9 in the recipes cleanups mentioned earlier).
* OscarL
should probably drop the pip recipe (after double checking that the Python packages description text contain proper instructions on how to do so), so people starts to get used to using non-packaged pip.
<OscarL>
Off to bed. Have a great day, everyone! (hope to read you soon Begasus[m] :-D)
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<Begasus[m]>
bugger, missed
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<Begasus[m]>
it takes longer to download/extract the sources for boost then to build it :/
<OscarL>
Begasus[m]: seems that pypi,org/project/renpy is *not at all* the RenPy that's talked about in the forum ::-P
<OscarL>
s/,/./
<OscarL>
(Which is actually named "Ren'Py")
<OscarL>
Also... we have over 50 packages targetting 3.12??? Don't scare me like that! :-)
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<OscarL>
Seems there's a new release for bash (5.3). If we get a PR for it... we should make sure to address #10673 in it.
<OscarL>
(I have been avoiding a revbump just for that)
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<phschafft>
morning.
<OscarL>
o/
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<|cos|>
OscarL: I wrestled pip stuff as a Haiku as recent as yesterday. Got it working with 3.14, and then redid it for 3.10 after your parting posts this morning. (All my times expressed from EU perspective)
<|cos|>
OscarL: With that said, the thing for configuration is that maybe one would want to add `pkgman uninstall pip python3_pip` to the description for python3.10 where the migration happens?
<|cos|>
OscarL: Not for later versions which never had pip, of course.
<jmairboeck>
|cos|: I think pkgman full-sync and SoftwareUpdater should take care of that. Removed packages from the repos get uninstalled by that I think.
<jmairboeck>
or am I misremembering that?
<|cos|>
That's not my experience. Both packages were installed, and I'm quite sure to have started the day with a full-sync. Additionally, I would be surprised if installed software got yanked without warning. It's not macOS after all?
<jmairboeck>
right, I think it does that only for conflicts
<OscarL>
|cos|: sorry, was on the phone.
<OscarL>
having pip as a .hpkg cam be considered a mistake.
<OscarL>
my intention is to remove it in the future.
<|cos|>
OscarL: I'm not debating that. :) I'm saying that if one has already installed pip through hpkg, the instructions for how to install with ensurepip are unsufficient.
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<|cos|>
OscarL: Sure enough, I did realize the output said it collided with read-only files and uninstalled. Not everyone will understand that.
<|cos|>
OscarL: It's up to you whether considering suggesting hpkg removal is desired, but I figured it would be reasonable feedback to give.
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<OscarL>
(had to forcefully restart the computer :-/)
<OscarL>
I'm not sure I understand. |cos|. if you used "python3.xx -m ensurepip --altinstall", you endup with pip3.xx
<OscarL>
pip and pip3 will (at least currently) always target whatever Python is the "default" in Haiku
<|cos|>
OscarL: If having pip et al installed with hpkg, the python3.10 -m ensurepip will fail due to not being allowed to overwrite it. (or if it was the next step?)
<|cos|>
The error message will be fairly clear, so maybe it's reasonable as is. Yet what I'm suggesting is to consider instructing about pkg removal prior to installation. It would make the description longer, more complex and all of that though.
<OscarL>
ah, ok. I see. For 3.10, yes... we should not only drop the pip .hpkg, but also communicate to users to manually remove it if they intend to use "proper" pip :-D
<|cos|>
That's my point, yes. (:
<|cos|>
Probably actual commands are too verbose, but adding a sentence about removing pip packages could be valuable in the description for python3.10.
<OscarL>
|cos|: I'm *a bit* slow... and learning as I go. We'll make it better eventually (have been trying to clean up things, as skills, hardware, and will permits :-D)
<|cos|>
OscarL: I'm probably horrible at expressing myself. Am thankful for all the work you do!
<OscarL>
You're welcome, we all do our part! :-)
<OscarL>
thanks for bringing the issue into my attention. it is way easy to lose track of things when were deep in the weeds :-D
<OscarL>
s/were/we're/
<OscarL>
crappy PS/2-to-USB adapter, generates a bazillion PrintScreen key events whenever I do shift+arrow keys... and Haiku then seems to try to take a bazillion screenshots in succesion, which kills this anemic CPU.
<OscarL>
besides my crappy hardware... screenshot should probably be single-instance
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<OscarL>
"KERN: usb_hid: keyboard device unhandled control 0x00002710" and...
<OscarL>
(from syslog, after the high CPU usage settled)
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<OscarL>
|cos|: maybe something like this in the Python interpreters package description? https://bpa.st/WWUA
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<OscarL>
Seems I forgot to add similar lines to the 3.11 and 3.12 recipes on their last update. Oops.
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<OscarL>
(3.10, 3.13, and 3.14 have them)
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<phschafft>
3.11! ;)
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<OscarL>
Python for Workgroups!
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<phschafft>
everything is better in version 3.11
<Halian>
Python for Snekgroups
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<OscarL>
"KERN: bfs: Could not find value in index "last_modified"!" mmm, leaving "tail -f /var/log/syslog" open during normal operation can be a bit anxiety inducing :-D
<|cos|>
OscarL: "(only if the .hpkg packaged version of pip is installed)" would be shorter and more direct, i think
<|cos|>
OscarL: maybe one can even shorten it further, but yes. that looks like what i would had needed to not end up running 3.14 for a day. (:
<phschafft>
Halian: haha.
<Hanicef[m]>
oh yeah, on the topic of pip, the package simply named `pip` don't seem to be usable, but you rather have to install the version of pip that matches your currently installed version of python - why is that?
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<OscarL>
Hanicef[m]: there are multiple Python interpreter versions that can co-exist.
<OscarL>
only one can be the "default" one.
<OscarL>
(the one that python/python3 will invoke)
<OscarL>
same for pip/pip3
<Hanicef[m]>
yeah, i get that, but why does simply pip exist, then?
<OscarL>
this is by no means Haiku specific.
<OscarL>
same applies to any OS.
<Hanicef[m]>
debian installs the version that matches your python version automatically
<OscarL>
Hanicef[m]: convenience, for people that either only use one python version, or decide which one they want as default.
<Hanicef[m]>
but haiku doesn't behave this way, since when i tried installing pip, it didn't work
<Hanicef[m]>
so which version does it install?
<OscarL>
both Python and pip can be installed as either "default" or as alternate installs...
<Hanicef[m]>
i had the default install, and it still didn't work as expected
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<Hanicef[m]>
i needed to install the specific version that was installed on my system: 3.10
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<OscarL>
Hanicef[m]: you mean "pkgman install cmd:pip" did not installed a /bin/pip (and pip3, and maybe even pip3.10) ?
<Hanicef[m]>
nope
<Hanicef[m]>
i had to do pkgman install pip_python310
<Hanicef[m]>
after that, i could use pip
<Hanicef[m]>
maybe there's a missing dependency on pip?
<OscarL>
if I do "pkgman install cmd:pip", it offers to install pip_python310.
<OscarL>
are you sure you didn't do "pkgman install pip" instead?
<Hanicef[m]>
huh, it didn't do that for me
<OscarL>
(that will not work, indeedI)
<OscarL>
I just tried, and it does for me.
<Hanicef[m]>
wait, do you need the cmd: part?
<OscarL>
pip and cmd:pip are inded two different things.
<Hanicef[m]>
ah, then i see what went wrong
<OscarL>
one as to install the package named "pip", the other the package that contains the command named pip
<OscarL>
Hanicef[m]: to be fair... I can understand the confusion...
<OscarL>
we have a problem with python recipes....
<Hanicef[m]>
especially when both show up as packages in pkgman search :P
<OscarL>
we use them to (possibly) generate packages for more than one version (the _python3xx ones)....
<Hanicef[m]>
yeah, thanks for the info, i definitely learned something new
<OscarL>
but we can't (for now), avoid generating the suffixless "base" package (plain "pip" in this case)
<OscarL>
Hanicef[m]: in any case, heads up for the future... we should be dropping the .hpkg version of pip... in favor of people installing a non-packaged version if they need it.
<Hanicef[m]>
alright :+1:
<OscarL>
currently, the 3.10, 3.13. and 3.14 package versions include instructions in their package descriptions.
<OscarL>
thing is... pip updates way too frequenly for us to keep up, and using the "proper" pip from upstream seems to work wel enough, so we shouldn't even try.