<nekobot>
• Begasus (2eb51633): inkscape, bump to 1.4.2 (#12645)
<JulianFoxR40>
Ah, alr
<Begasus[m]>
there those 3 are done :)
<JulianFoxR40>
In my personal opinion, IBM ThinkPad R40 is one of the best consumer avaiable ThinkPads from 2000's due to its high compatibility with both Windows XP and 98 SE. It is still a pretty good machine, it runs Haiku pretty well imo. Only one thing that annoys me is lack of brightness adjustment
<JulianFoxR40>
(sorry for bad spelling of some words, I'm not native to English)
<Begasus[m]>
some of us are also non English native, so no worries on that JulianFoxR40
<JulianFoxR40>
Alright
<Begasus[m]>
lack of brightness is due to no supported video driver
<Begasus[m]>
results in VESA (BIOS) and framebuffer (EFI) (hope I got that right) :)
<JulianFoxR40>
Also, Haiku runs surprisingly good on my machine even tho mine is a middle-end machine from IBM's offer. My machine has a Pentium M running at 1.3 GHz and 768MB of RAM (upgraded from 256MB)
<JulianFoxR40>
I see, Begasus[m]
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<JulianFoxR40>
Oh, by the way, does anyone know if the R40 can support 2GB of RAM? I know that there are 1GB laptop DDR1 sticks, but not all machines from that era support them
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<rf>
I've been looking around, but I find very little.. what's available in terms of power management settings?
<JulianFoxR40>
I don't know myself honestly speaking.
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<JulianFoxR40>
Welcome, tuaris
<Begasus[m]>
can't tell myself also, you can disable some CPU's with Pulse, lowering threads? (not that low level knowlidge here)
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<rf>
Pulse? where do I find this?
<ThinkPadR40Fox>
Demos > Pulse
<rf>
oh, look at that.. thank you
<ThinkPadR40Fox>
No problem, rf
<rf>
how come that's under Demos and not under Preferences?
<ThinkPadR40Fox>
I have no idea honestly. Maybe becuase it is just for show in my opinion. Just to see the usage of the processor go up and down (or usage of indivitual threads if the CPU has multiple cores and/or multithreading)
<Begasus[m]>
I think it's put there so regular users don't start toying with it without reason? :)
<rf>
well, I did try to turn them all off, but it just warns you that you can't turn off the last remaining CPU :)
<rf>
must.. disable.. them.. all!
<ThinkPadR40Fox>
If you disable the last thread of your CPU, that would mean that you have halted your computer
<ThinkPadR40Fox>
(AKA turned off the CPU)
<ThinkPadR40Fox>
Completely off topic, I have a ThinkPad R40 and it's keyboard feels so good to type on... I wish that modern laptops had a keyboard like this
<rf>
I know... but it has a builtin fail safe for those that might want to try
<rf>
I'd love to be able to say "if the laptop isn't plugged in, go to medium power" or something like that.. but I guess there are no such tools today
<ThinkPadR40Fox>
You can choose a low power setting in the process controler that is in the taskbar by default
<Begasus[m]>
pretty pleased with this ryzen7 laptop keayboard too :)
<Begasus[m]>
keyboard*
<Begasus[m]>
doesn't prevent typo's though :P
<ThinkPadR40Fox>
Yep, same here. Tho, in my opinion, none other laptop keyboard will beat the ThinkPad classic keyboard
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<Begasus[m]>
never owned one, so can't tell from experience :)
<ThinkPadR40Fox>
You can find some ThinkPads from 2002-2004 for cheap and most of them have a "ThinkPad Classic" keyboard that is just like my ThinkPad R40's keyboard
<ThinkPadR40Fox>
I got mine R40 for 80 zł (~€19/~$22) and it was worth it
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<ThinkPadR40Fox>
Welcome in, mmu_man
<Begasus[m]>
cmake 4.1.0-rc4 still on par :)
<Begasus[m]>
not looking for another laptop, already got 5 surrounding me :)
<ThinkPadR40Fox>
Ah, I see
<Begasus[m]>
one is pretty old too, probably around the 2000's somewhere, hardly boot that one
<Begasus[m]>
keeping as momentum (second one I ever bought) :)
<ThinkPadR40Fox>
Ah, Isee
<ThinkPadR40Fox>
I see*
<ThinkPadR40Fox>
My first ever older machine that I bought was the ThinkPad R40. It's from December of 2003 and it still works fine. Just that the battery doesn't want to charge for some obscure reason
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<Begasus[m]>
batteries can be a pain for any laptop I guess
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<ThinkPadR40Fox>
And Vision has crashed
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<ThinkPadR40Fox>
All in all, Haiku is a great alternative system for older computers from around the turn of the milenium that were pretty decent back then. It gives them a new life in my opinion
<ThinkPadR40Fox>
Like right now, I use my Thinkpad R40 as an IRC client computer and it does this task pretty well honestly
<ThinkPadR40Fox>
I'm doing fine, and how's everyone else doing?
<phschafft>
I had some nice pasta, so I think that makes for a good afternoon.
<ThinkPadR40Fox>
That's nice
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<ThinkPadR40Fox>
Welcome in, Anarchos
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<Anarchos>
hello ThinkPadR40Fox
<ThinkPadR40Fox>
How are you?
<Anarchos>
thanks Skipp_OSX for all your work recently on Tracker !
<ThinkPadR40Fox>
Also, welcome in, Skipp_OSX
<Anarchos>
ThinkPadR40Fox a bit bored, but fine thanks
<ThinkPadR40Fox>
I see, and that's good that you're doing fine
<Skipp_OSX>
You welcome. I was half expecting some problems to come in but so far just one and it's old.
<ThinkPadR40Fox>
I'm doing fine, just sitting and chatting on other IRC servers and channels
<ThinkPadR40Fox>
I see
<Skipp_OSX>
Trash icon updating for you now?
<Skipp_OSX>
It should work every single time now (instead of most of the time).
<ThinkPadR40Fox>
Also, damn, I still cannot believe that some IRC servers survived through 20+ years and still are quite active
<ThinkPadR40Fox>
QOTD: should I save up some money and get a PCMCIA WiFi card that would possibly work with Haiku?
<Begasus[m]>
we never stopped :) (although mostly through matrix here now)
<Anarchos>
Skipp_OSX yes trash updates !
<Anarchos>
Begasus[m] no i come right here from Vision (though it has some annoying bugs)
<Skipp_OSX>
if you use Show Disks mode, you should see a Disks menu in the lower left Count view now, and you can click Disks to open it, and you shouldn't see the Trash icon inside the volume but only on Desktop.
<ThinkPadR40Fox>
Anarchos Vision gang! I'm on Vision right now too
<Anarchos>
ThinkPadR40Fox i use haiku bare metal for 20 years :)
<ThinkPadR40Fox>
I see
<ThinkPadR40Fox>
I only recently started using Haiku on my older hardware and I have a dual-boot Windows 10 and Haiku on my main PC
<Skipp_OSX>
e.g. if you boot volume is named Haiku, no Trash can icon in the Haiku volume in the lower left menu.
<Anarchos>
Skipp_OSX let me try
<Anarchos>
Skipp_OSX i see a disks icon in the lower left menu of trash.
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<Skipp_OSX>
yeah you should be able to I think.
<Skipp_OSX>
but above Disks is the boot volume right, Haiku by default or whatever you named it, and inside that there should be no Trash icon. And below the Disks icon should be Desktop, and in there yes Trash icon. Also you should have a Disks submenu with the volume inside it, and you should be able to click the Disks submenu to open it.
<Skipp_OSX>
err Disks supermenu I mean
<Anarchos>
Skipp_OSX yes i just see 'home' and 'system" following my boot volume in the left bottom menu of trash icon
<Skipp_OSX>
hooray
<Anarchos>
skipp_osx yes all work as you said.
<Skipp_OSX>
See because I was trying to fix the Trash icon and I was looking in that menu and was like, there shouldn't be a Trash icon herer...
<Skipp_OSX>
And I didn't want it to be there and not get updated so I removed it. It should only be on the Desktop.
<Begasus[m]>
Anarchos: I meant I'm mostly in here through matrix clients :)
<Skipp_OSX>
And it should update on the Desktop, and if you have an open/save file panel open to Desktop it should also have a Trash can icon, and that Trash can icon should also live update.
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<Anarchos>
Skipp_OSX ok.
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<ThinkPadR40Fox>
Hello again, had to restart my Thinkpad
<Anarchos>
Skipp_OSX yes the trash icon updates in a Save panel.
<Skipp_OSX>
yup
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<Anarchos>
hello mmu_man
<ThinkPadR40Fox>
Welcome in, mmu_man
<ThinkPadR40Fox>
Now, I'm confused. Before I rebooted my machine, I could connect to an IRC server, and now, I magically can't
<ThinkPadR40Fox>
I tried to connect to irc.anthrochat.net
<ThinkPadR40Fox>
(port 7000)
<Begasus[m]>
closing down here
<Begasus[m]>
cu peeps!
<phschafft>
nachti Begasus[m]!
<Anarchos>
good night Begasus[m]
<ThinkPadR40Fox>
Good night for you, Begasus[m]
<Skipp_OSX>
also, no more stupid black line when you create a New folder
<scantysnax>
good morning, good afternoon, good evening, and good night :-)
<ThinkPadR40Fox>
How are you?
<scantysnax>
I'm doing well, On a laptop that's running Haiku :-D
<ThinkPadR40Fox>
That's good, and pretty much same here for me
<ThinkPadR40Fox>
I am on (as my name suggests) a IBM ThinkPad R40 running Haiku
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<ThinkPadR40Fox>
Welcome in, nipos
<Anarchos>
hello nipos
<scantysnax>
nice. i am on some sort of Toshiba Satellite. Windows and linux, and BIOS say it has two cores running at 2.5GHz. Haiku Says I have four cores at 2.3GHz
<nipos>
What happened, was my phone disconnected? o.O
<scantysnax>
so I don't know who is right
<ThinkPadR40Fox>
I see. You should believe the BIOS of the machine
<ThinkPadR40Fox>
Also, nipos , pretty much nothing happened
<nipos>
I was a bit surprised by the welcome. I should have been in that room like forever
<scantysnax>
i have no idea, TBH
<ThinkPadR40Fox>
I see
<scantysnax>
well, haiku detects four cores, and i can shut them off at will, as long as 1 cpu is running (obviously)
<ThinkPadR40Fox>
I think that I know what's going on
<ThinkPadR40Fox>
You probably have a two-core CPU with hyperthreading
<scantysnax>
yeah, that's what i have been thinking,
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<Anarchos>
vous savez comment on dit tigre en sanskrit.
<Anarchos>
wrong window, sorry
<scantysnax>
Anarchos: i missed your message the other day about the accelerometer on your EEE PC
<Anarchos>
scantysnax no trouble
<scantysnax>
but good job!
<scantysnax>
once you get sensible information, sometimes driver dev is not *that* hard especially if you have freebsd or linux sources, you can sometimes adapt.
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<scantysnax>
many years ago, i wrote a parallel port driver for ITE887x pci. i wish i still had the sources.
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<Anarchos>
scantysnax the device is attached to ACPI so driver is pretty straightforward to port from linux
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<scantysnax>
Anarchos, neat... please keep me updated!
<Anarchos>
scantysnax i must find time/motivation to finish the port
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<scantysnax>
Anarchos: please do... it would be pretty cool to have
<Anarchos>
scantysnax can't say apart from'hey we copied linux' :/
<scantysnax>
^_^
<scantysnax>
hooray, my NES emulator compiled on 32-bit, all i had to change was the Makefile!
<Habbie>
'to point it at an entirely different source tree'
<scantysnax>
well, everyhting works, except full screen video, and i don't know why yet.
<Habbie>
not bad
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<scantysnax>
could be the laptop.... i don't know.
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<scantysnax>
i wonder why this screen can't do 640x480x8 even though i could set that resolution in screen prefs
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<Anarchos>
ah, i found a double free in RemoteDesktop. Another patch in sight , so no more crash when the remote disappears :)
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<ThinkPadR40Fox>
Hello again
<phschafft>
good evening again ;)
<ThinkPadR40Fox>
How are you, phschafft ?
* ThinkPadR40Fox
is idle: Test
* ThinkPadR40Fox
has returned
<phschafft>
oh, I'm fine.
<gordonjcp>
right time to install Haiku on this sodding IdeaPad
<gordonjcp>
think it's going to be a Nightly
<ThinkPadR40Fox>
That's good that you're doing fine, phschafft
<gordonjcp>
evening
<ThinkPadR40Fox>
Also, that's a good idea, gordonjcp . Haiku will run on everything
<ThinkPadR40Fox>
Good evening
<gordonjcp>
I think I used to have an R40
<ThinkPadR40Fox>
I see
<gordonjcp>
I'm mostly on T430s these days
<ThinkPadR40Fox>
My IBM ThinkPad R40 is from December of 2003
<gordonjcp>
I have four or five
<ThinkPadR40Fox>
I see
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<ThinkPadR40Fox>
Welcome, higen9
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<ThinkPadR40Fox>
Welcome, kescher
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<gordonjcp>
does anyone know if the BCM4313 driver is usable in Haiku?
<gordonjcp>
Google seems conflicted on it
<nephele>
what's it's haiku name?
<phschafft>
Bob.
* nephele
just tried KDE Linux, but unfortunately it crashed the plasmashell
<nephele>
hi phschafft :)
<phschafft>
:)
<nephele>
Now I have to look for another linux distro
<gordonjcp>
looks like it doesn't, and install-wifi-firmwares.sh doesn't work
<gordonjcp>
oh well, time to hunt around for another wifi card
<nephele>
what do you mean with it doesn't work?
<nephele>
you will almost never need that script
<gordonjcp>
every time it goes to download firmware images from github it fails with "network is unreachable"
<gordonjcp>
I can actually browse to it
<gordonjcp>
it looks like the card isn't supported anyway
<nephele>
The script is only usefull for *very* old cards where the firmware is under a no-distribute license
<nephele>
everything else we ship
<gordonjcp>
okay
<gordonjcp>
so, evidently the BCM4313 isn't supported then
<nephele>
iirc that's like some wierd wrapper around NT wifi drivers
<nephele>
there is also bwn(4) but it also doesn't support that specific card
<nephele>
and also no driver from OpenBSD
<gordonjcp>
it's also got a broadcom 81xx wired connection but that doesn't work either
<nephele>
yeah, it looks pretty bleak for that card :/
<gordonjcp>
after about 20MB it'll just stop passing traffi
<gordonjcp>
*traffic
<gordonjcp>
ping fails with "no buffer space available"
<gordonjcp>
which is pretty wacky
<nephele>
interesting. Though unfortunately i have no clue what that bug may be about
<nephele>
So, i guess, bug report? :g
<nephele>
though both adapters broken is pretty unfortunate
<gordonjcp>
also it's very fond of various servers crashing, usually the notification server
<gordonjcp>
which is immediately fatal
<nephele>
huh?
<nephele>
In which way is it fatal? I've never seen that one crash :)
<gordonjcp>
anything you do after that will just either kdl, lock the machine, or reboot the machine
<gordonjcp>
sometimes it's the media server
<nephele>
Sounds like there is some underlying issue and not something specific to the servers
<gordonjcp>
2G of RAM ought to be enough right?
<nephele>
Yes, more than enough
<nephele>
last release notes say 386mb, but that is an error in the notes, it was supposed to be 256mb ;)
<nephele>
384*
<gordonjcp>
heh
<nephele>
debian 13 wants to be released in 8 days... maybe i should just install the debian proto-13
<nephele>
atleast they don't put their nightly images in a .zip file like we do. I failed installing haiku many times because i forgot to extract it
<phschafft>
I *once* asked my father to burn me an iso. he burned a CD with an ISO filesystem containing the iso image.
<phschafft>
when asked he said I said 'burn me that iso', not 'burn me that iso raw on a CD'. that was the time empty CDs where still worth half a month of teenage money.
<Habbie>
i've seen such burned CDs
<nephele>
I tried "ChimeraOS" for linux gaming PC..... but this was a terrible experience. It doesn't really become any better at gaming by removing all not-explicitly-gaming software
<nephele>
especially no good way to install wine made me... not be able to install my game
<nephele>
also, it boots into steam big picture and doesn't support the mouse, which was kinda wierd
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* Habbie
rebases his acer-c732 branch onto haiku master
<Habbie>
going camping next week and this is the only laptop i'm bringing
<nephele>
Heh, one the one hand, great that haiku works for you as a only system there, on the other hand, why are you bringing a laptop camping :D
<nephele>
I'm gonna try installing debian now. I reckon it's okay with a smaller EFI partition, KDE Linux wanted 4GB *minimum* and i can't figure out why
<Habbie>
4GB for -EFI-? that does not sound right
<Habbie>
also, "KDE Linux"? what distro is that?
<nephele>
It's KDE Linux, that's what it's called
<Habbie>
oh i see it
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<nephele>
the installer tells you to go back when you have <1GB to make it atleast 1GB, when you then try to go further it explicitly warns you not to make one that is less than 4GB, and the auto disk partitioner makes a 4GB one
<Habbie>
wow
<nephele>
so atleast they are explicit with this requirement/want
<Habbie>
how big does it make root?
<nephele>
Well, how big you want i guess?
<nephele>
it didn't try to make swap atleast
<phschafft>
Ellenor: I wish there would have been any humour in that.
<nephele>
I could imagine that maybe they use the efi partition for some of the A/B system update stuff? but i'm not sure. Without explanation that choice just seems wierd
<ThinkPadR40Fox>
Can somebody mention me for a second? I have applied a Vision notification sound and I wanna make sure that it works correctly
<nephele>
(as a user i immidiently go 3GB wasted, oh noes!)
<nephele>
ThinkPadR40Fox mentioned
<ThinkPadR40Fox>
Thank you
<Habbie>
nephele, having just read the page, i wondered the same, for their immutable thing, but honestly 4GB sounds small for that
<nephele>
Well, would be enough for having two haikus in there, lol. But yes, i don't know
<Habbie>
:)
<nephele>
I guess maybe they stole my idea (/s) of rolling over efi loaders in case of problems
<nephele>
but i am just guessing
<nephele>
maybe i can take a peek when i am installing debian what the partition is hiding
<Habbie>
23:25Z <nephele> Heh, one the one hand, great that haiku works for you as a only system there, on the other hand, why are you bringing a laptop camping :D
<Habbie>
haiku working as the only system there is the experiment
<Habbie>
we'll see if i feel like i'm missing anything
<Habbie>
and then i'll look like a bumbling idiot because i haven't used hp in a year ;)
* ThinkPadR40Fox
is idle: Busy with stuff
<nephele>
hp?
<Habbie>
the haikuporter tool
<nephele>
ah
<Habbie>
i considered clarifying immediately, and thought "don't need to do that here"
<Habbie>
sorry :)
<nephele>
Well, if you have problems i'm sure someone will come over and try to help you with your distro by installing flatpack
<nephele>
in this context hp could have been haikuports or haikuporter or the company of the laptop ;)
<nephele>
but i mainly use desktop machines where reaching the power button is *very* deliberate
<Habbie>
yeah
<nephele>
yes
<Habbie>
ok
<Habbie>
see top right
<Habbie>
not so deliberate
<nephele>
Very nice
<Habbie>
some other parts of the keymap are a challenge too
<nephele>
this keyboard has a sleep button there, but this is above the numpad block, and i never use these other buttons either.. like calculator email and home button
<nephele>
so not going there accidentally
<Habbie>
i should probably teach the Keyboard thing (applet? no) about chromebook layouts
<nephele>
keyboard preferences?
<Habbie>
preferences > keymap
<nephele>
maybe that should go into the input preferences too
<Habbie>
hmm i don't see a kb layout there
<nephele>
yeah
<nephele>
which is pretty bad. if you own keyboards that require different layouts
<Habbie>
ah, because Input might recognise the separate devices?
<nephele>
actually, the power confirmation by default could probably be tied to stuff like having a battery?
<nephele>
yes, input has per-device configs now
<Habbie>
ah
<nephele>
that was the reason for it
<Habbie>
ok, so between the two, improvement is possible
<nephele>
before there was pref/mouse and pref/keyboard
<Habbie>
'tied to stuff like having a battery' - that would not suck for my specific case but i wonder if it really is the right logic
<nephele>
"InputEventInjector FakeK" hmmm, wonder who that is...
<nephele>
well, like, maybe a setting, but the default determined by if you have a battery
<nephele>
surely it's not perfect but probably right in like 85% of cases
<nephele>
and for the rest you only need to change the setting once
<Habbie>
well yes. once there is a setting
<Habbie>
right now it is a one word patch :D
<nephele>
Well, adding settings is annoying. But these shitty laptop keyboards are a pretty convincing argument to me
<Habbie>
yeah, i'm not against, just haven't done anything like that in Haiku yet
<Habbie>
it turned out that the rosterPrivate.ShutDown method called from power_button_monitor.cpp has a bool argument 'confirm' that i just switched from false to true
<Habbie>
but i could do more
<Habbie>
probably not hard
<Habbie>
just new to me
<nephele>
how come i can't buy HDMI cables that have the required bandwidth for my monitor in the store
<Habbie>
won't Saturn happily sell you one for 60 EUR?
<nephele>
well, SoftwareUpdater also has code to *not* do a full-sync... seems Haiku has some of these hidden codepaths a lot :)
<ThinkPadR40Fox>
I will shut down the ThinkPad R40 and I will get on my ThinkPad SL510 shortly. I will be a "ThinkPadSL510Fox"
<nephele>
Well, i was at MediaMarkt, and they only had once that do 4k@120hz. but my display is 240hz. and i doubt display stream compression can double the bandwidth
<nephele>
my problem is that the display only has one displayport, and both pcs have displayport
<Habbie>
i've learned that it's easier to "just" look at the HDMI version
<Habbie>
and not all of the other stuff that may or may not follow from it
<nephele>
i guess i could connect haiku with a slower hdmi cable as it doesn't do any link training so can't do 240hz anyway
<Habbie>
also i said Saturn because I thought those were more prevalent in .de ;)
<Habbie>
in .nl they're all MediaMarkt
<nephele>
well... hdmi 2.1 aparently is rebranded hdmi 2.0
<nephele>
Saturn and MediaMarkt were both pretty prevalent
<nephele>
but
<nephele>
they decided to can the good brand and rebrand all ones to the shitty one ;)
<Habbie>
which one is that? :)
<Habbie>
also i hear they might be chinese-owned soon
<ThinkPadR40Fox>
Okay. Time for me to go over onto the other ThinkPad. Be right back shortly
ThinkPadR40Fox has quit [Quit: Vision[]: i've been blurred!]
<nephele>
which to me is really weird... but okay.... I know it's effectively the same but Saturn used to have a techy and reliable reputation while MediaMarkt had a cheap and "grilling centrist" repuration
<nephele>
lol, that one wants money. works in mobile safari Habbie
<nephele>
if they think i use mediamarkt for online shopping they are delusional
<nephele>
they have one of the shittiest site searching engines i know
<nephele>
ThinkPadSL510Fox: it does that sometimes, if you want you can add a bug report on github with the report
<Habbie>
i've bought plenty from mediamarkt online here
<nephele>
I've not had it crash for me in a long time though...but hey i still have the second newest commit :)
<Habbie>
but, quite often without using their search
<ThinkPadSL510Fox>
Nah, I'm good. I won't understand the bug report anyways, nephele
<nephele>
ThinkPadSL510Fox: the report is human readable, you can "just" paste it into ticket anyhow
<ThinkPadSL510Fox>
I see
<Habbie>
hrev 58862 -> 58986 is quite the rebuild
<nephele>
Habbie: i used to buy from real.de, which is now kaufland.de... but for electronics i just go to like alternate.de or notebooksbilliger.de... much nicer
<Habbie>
i know alternate (.nl)
<nephele>
alternate.de has a great search engine, and great filters