<OscarL>
Good Sunday, folks. Aloha, Begasus[m] :-)
<Begasus[m]>
Ola OscarL :)
<OscarL>
doggies eat the "h", I see! :-P ("ola" means "wave", as in sea-waves in Castilian/Spanish...)
<Begasus[m]>
forgot about that :)
<Begasus[m]>
at the dogschool, without dogs
<OscarL>
Begasus[m]: good news... managed to hunt the weakest fridge of the pack... now it's doing noices in the background I'll need to get used to again... but hey... cold beers at last!!!
<Begasus[m]>
could have stayed home today, comunications .... :P
<Begasus[m]>
good to hear OscarL ! glad you got that fridge sorted
<OscarL>
thanks :-). After so many years without one.. at first I was like... what do I do with this one, now? :-D
<Begasus[m]>
now you need something to put in there :)
<OscarL>
but yesterday it already helped with the "nice to have cold water when ambient temps are > 37 C" :-D
<Begasus[m]>
+1 :D
<OscarL>
so... no dogs in dogschool... I guess you're taking barking-classes then?
<OscarL>
"huskiesque" sounds like an interesting dialect to try to learn (given how chatty Huskies tent do be, no?)
<Begasus[m]>
dogs enough (compitition today) just not our (silent) ones :P
<Begasus[m]>
only problem, have to step outside to get a smoke :P
<OscarL>
I remember being a little kid in the early 80s... everyone smoking everywhere... even on public busses full of people :-D
<OscarL>
my father and his friends smoking inside the house, with us kids running around. My mother, on the other hand... would hide away to smoke, so I wouldn't see her doing it.
<OscarL>
k, all quiet on Python land for now. Might get some movements there starting next Thuesday.
<nekobot>
• Begasus (78d32909): gdal, revbump for new armadillo (#13015)
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<Begasus[m]>
Qt6.9.3 is released :P
<OscarL>
Mmm, perhaps HaikuPorter should automatically set DISABLE_SOURCE_PACKAGE if a port is both "any" and it has no PATCHES.
<OscarL>
mmm, maybe not... I was thinking only of code packages, like pure-python libs, but might not work for other kind of packages, like, say... data packages that are any, but might need some "building" before packaging.
<jmairboeck>
A good indicator would also be the #noarchive marker in SOURCE_U
<jmairboeck>
*SOURCE_URI
<OscarL>
jmairboeck: right, but I'm worried about some possible "post-processing" that might occur in say, PATCH() or BUILD().
<OscarL>
I guess we shouldn't *really* need "_source" packages for that, but... some licenses might disagree?
<OscarL>
for disabling creating of base packages when not needed, korli had proposed having: `DISABLE_MAIN_PACKAGE="yes"`.
<OscarL>
that sounds explicit enough (which is good)...
<OscarL>
I was just pondering if having PROVIDES="" and REQUIRES="" might be a good alternative, or if that's just "too magic".
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<jmairboeck>
yes I had that idea too, as these two implicitly declare a subpackage usually
<PulkoMandy>
Source packages are useless for license compliance, since you can't really use them to build the software
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<PulkoMandy>
I don't know why we continue tobuild and store them for everything. Why not just put the original source archives in the release dvd instead?
<jmairboeck>
and we should maybe introduce a policy check then, if the resulting non-existing main package is really empty after INSTALL()
<OscarL>
(in any case... first I need to figure out where in HaikuPorter I would need to add that "disable base package, please" code :-D)
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<jmairboeck>
probably somewhere in Port.py
<Begasus[m]>
only use 1 python target? no need for eval etc then?
<OscarL>
PulkoMandy: good day! I've no clue about licenses requirements and such, so I'll leave that discussion to others :-). In *my* case... they just seems extra needless (for pure-python code, and even more so for just repackaged. .whl files).
<PulkoMandy>
OscarL: The gpl license requires providing the sources in a usable format, something you could compile yourself to get he same result as what we ship. And you can't use the source packages to re-run haikuporter, so that is not working
<PulkoMandy>
And they are also not easily installable so even accessing the files in there is confusing
<PulkoMandy>
we would be better compliant by shipping the original source archives and the corresponding haikuporter recipes
<OscarL>
Begasus[m]: We can do both. Target (mainly) only one Pythonversion... but leave the door open for low-friction testing of other versions (which implies having the evals in.... shouldn't hurt much now that most/all recipes use basically the same "template").
<PulkoMandy>
I would be happy with justone Python version, I think last time we considered it, Korli was worried about oroviding a smooth migration for python users
<jmairboeck>
so we could use the main package for the default version and only add subpackages when other versions are needed?
<OscarL>
I will agree that having _source packages listed on both pkgman and HaikuDepot, but not being able to "install" them, and not even use those tools to download them, is very confusing to end-users.
<PulkoMandy>
And the more we allow users to do custom python things (run heir own pip, virtualenvs, etc), the more we risk breaking their stuff when we change python versions
<OscarL>
I don't mind providing all currrent active versions of the Python interpreter (after all, they require non-trivial patchsets and recipes). We should definitively only provide _python3xx packages for whatever the default version is...
<PulkoMandy>
I think the idea was to have an empty base package that depends on the "current python" package, and other versions as needed. So you can install the base package and have things work, but you also know which python you're using, and notice when that's updated, or you can install older/newer versions as needed
<OscarL>
I'm not sure how feasible is to have things depend on, say "cmd:python3" (and then just change whatever provides that). It might work for stuff that has no extra dependencies other than a working Python interpreter, but as soon as you have other packages dependencies...
<OscarL>
interpreter versions start to matter a lot.
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<jmairboeck>
I think PulkoMandy meant to just add REQUIRES="foobar_python310" to the "foobar" recipe, so that users can install just foobar and get the default version automatically
<PulkoMandy>
Yes
<Halamix2>
(Testing; my previous IRC messages might have not been sent by the Matrix bridge for some reason)
<OscarL>
jmairboeck: so... base packages become "meta" packages, that point to what is (or was) the default Python version). If we change, say, 3.10 to Python 3.13 as new default, things don't automatically break because of that, and we can updated things one-by-one.
<OscarL>
(I'll still need to think/test how his would work in practice... I'm slow :-/)
<OscarL>
Halamix2: your messaegs came through... if issue is on repology, you might need to contact them instead?
<OscarL>
Halamix2: or wait for Begasus[m] to reply, he's the one of use making most use of it :-D
<OscarL>
Halamix2: for future reference, this channel is logged, so you could always double-check there to see if you're getting through, or to catch up some of my ramblings :-P (https://oftc.catirclogs.org/haiku/)
<Halamix2>
Neat!
<Begasus[m]>
atm seeing your comments Halamix2 (@halamix2:matrix.org)
<Begasus[m]>
but sometimes I'm missing some messages posted in IRC not showing in the bridge to matrix
<OscarL>
Halamix2: so, broken link is the one just after "You can use this page to check packages which need an update to a newer version:", on the HaikuPorter wiki, right?
<OscarL>
seems so. Will replace it. Thanks for reporting.
<nekobot>
• Begasus (a21427c8): opencv3, revbump, use latest gdal (#13018)
<OscarL>
heh, seems the link on the wiki was broken for long? (given that you on 2021 already used the same link as Halamix2 has suggested).
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<OscarL>
korli's suggested link still has a crap-ton of packages :-D. And it removes stuff like "1room" from that list (we have 1.0, last version is 1.11.7).
<OscarL>
but on the other hand... still has stuff like "freerdp+" from 2.11.7 to 3.17.214, so not sure how that's supposed to work.
<Begasus[m]>
added that one when GSoC was still a thing :)
<Begasus[m]>
guess that was the last year
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<Halamix2[m]>
I think the list is limited to 200 projects and it somehow picks which ones are shown
<OscarL>
so I'm not sure korli's link is "avoid[ing] not widely up-to-date software" enough (given the examples I gave).
<Begasus[m]>
first 200 in the alphabet, you can go further
<nekobot>
• Begasus (37e7a33c): ensmallen, new recipe (dependency for mlpack) (#13013)
<Begasus[m]>
bugger, that should be in reverse :P
<OscarL>
re: Python versions... at least at the very moment... we only target 3.10 (according to "pkgman search --uninstalled-only --search-scope=name _python --details")
<OscarL>
(while still providing all active interpreter versions)
<Begasus[m]>
+1 :)
<OscarL>
have a only a coupe of oddly named ones sill (add " | grep -v _python310" to the previous pkgman search command to see them)
<OscarL>
well, not *oddly* named...
<Begasus[m]>
had one yesterday still in need for cmd:python :P
<OscarL>
just they don't mention the version on the name (like meson_python, or kdevelop_python, which might be OK, at least for the latter)
<OscarL>
(I need to add an "--exact" search mode to pkgman, one of these days)
<jmairboeck>
IIRC kdevelop_python isn't a python package but the python support plugin for kdevelop
<OscarL>
jmairboeck: indeed, and for such cases, makes sense the lack of version suffix.
<Begasus[m]>
right, same as there is a kdevelop_php package
<OscarL>
not so much for packages that provide a python binding, like maybe lixml2_python.
<Begasus[m]>
eg plugins
<Begasus[m]>
kdevelop_python package
<OscarL>
"PROVIDES_python" (on libxml2), requires cmd:python3, but recipe uses "pythonDir="$portPackageLinksDir/cmd~python3.10"", and suck packages are alwayds installed for a specific version, so I think we should fix that one.
<OscarL>
mattiat: It might have been HexKeyMapper the one I had, indeed.
<mattiat>
now i will put them in emailware license
<mattiat>
help me : change license to emailware ...
<mattiat>
if you enconter copyright put copyleft ...
<OscarL>
email addresses don't last forever. what happens if someone can't contact you then... no license. Better use something else, IMO.
<mattiat>
keymapper change keymap in a custom keymap with utf8 chars ...
<Begasus[m]>
seems some message are not passing again from IRC
<mattiat>
i am so afraid ... no more beos/haiku
<mattiat>
i need my brother + erased all ...
<mattiat>
years alone, lost everything
<OscarL>
mattiat: tried contacting local support groups?
<mattiat>
linux day : 25 oct
<mattiat>
I'm glad you're not bad ...
<OscarL>
might not be ideal, but specially in cases of health related issues, one would expect European countries to have some sort of support network one could lean on, when needed.