ChanServ changed the topic of #wayland to: https://wayland.freedesktop.org | Discussion about the Wayland protocol and its implementations, plus libinput
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<tokyo4j>
I really hope dcz's experimental input method PRs get merged
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<kali_user>
Good evening everyone. I am running Kali Linux and I keep having crashes whenever I use the GUI (GNOME). Someone on the GNOME forum said I should switch from X11 to Wayland, so I did. However, succeeding my doing that I had terrible ugly keyboard bounce, press an 'a' get 30 of then, press a backspace, get 40 of them. I tried to fix it in setup but I was unable to do so. How do I report this major bug to the Wayland developers?
<whot>
kali_user: most likely use here is that the toolkits keep repeating the key after seeing delayed key release events. that *shouldn't* happen and could be casued by some underlying issue with the kali kernel or whatever is in place there - otherwise we'd see *a lot* of bug reports.
<vyivel>
kali_user: you don't because it's not a wayland bug; i'd suggest reporting this to gnome, although given frequent shell crashes and keyboard input lag i think it could be a problem specific to your distro/setup/hardware
<whot>
but either way... nevermind, as vyivel said :)
<vyivel>
try a different compositor maybe, check what libinput debug-events logs
<kali_user>
whot / vyivel: The keyboard bounce only occurs when I am using GNOME with Wayland, and under Wayland I have no system crashes. However, when I use GNOME with XOrg (x11) I have system crashes but my keboard works fine. I truly do not believe this is a hardware issue.
<vyivel>
something else then
<kali_user>
vyivel: huh?
<kali_user>
I undestand Wayland or X11 are display servers and GNOME is a desktop environment, what is a compositor?
<vyivel>
sigh
<vyivel>
wayland is a *protocol*
<vyivel>
it's like saying your web browser handles input incorrectly so the problem must be in http
<kali_user>
So X11 is a display server and Wayland is not?
<whot>
x11 is the protocol, Xorg is the display server
<kali_user>
I am not a GUI expert, so I am saying thing in the best way I can.
<kali_user>
ok
<whot>
so x11 == wayland and Xorg == gnome shell/mutter (for the purpose of this discussion, anyway)
<kali_user>
So if wayland is a protocol, and X11 is a protocol, and Xorg is the display server, what is the name of the Wayland display server?
<vyivel>
in this case, mutter, gnome's wayland compositor
<kali_user>
So, if I want to use Wayland I cannot use GOME?
<kali_user>
GNOME
<kali_user>
that sucks
<kali_user>
I do not want to use KDE
<kali_user>
I understand KDE is the alternative to GNOME.
<whot>
mutter has multiple backends and can run as window manager on X or as compositor. IOW you can run gnome on wayland just fine, as evidenced that I'm typing this from gnome on wayland :)
<kali_user>
how can anything run "on wayland" when you just finished saying it is a protocol not software!
<whot>
because english is rarely a precise language
<kali_user>
I beg your pardon? I would assert that I am fully capable of colloquy that leverages English with absolute preciseness. If that is not a capability you have, then that is an issue not English.
<whot>
i mean my car runs on petrol when most of the time it's actually on the road and rarely on petrol
<kali_user>
So no one can help me and has a real answer then?
<kali_user>
thank you everyone.
<kali_user>
I will file a bug and get someone with diagnostic capability to try to help me.
<whot>
as said above, the issue is likely in gnome, probably mutter
<kali_user>
I have no idea what mutter is, that is another name for GNOME?
<whot>
it's the wayland compositor component of gnome
<kali_user>
By the way, I did a dpkg --list on Kali, and tons of packages are called Wayland.
<kali_user>
okay
<whot>
could be in kalis builds of those components because seeing keyboard that bad is not a common issue upstream
<kali_user>
what does the compositor do?
<vyivel>
if the rest of the system is responsive (so it's not just generally lagging), maybe keyboard repeat info is borked somehow so it tries to send events too often for a client to process
<vyivel>
dunno
<kali_user>
ok
<vyivel>
compositor = display server
<kali_user>
ok. So, since Wayland is not yet officially supported on Kali Linux (perhaps for this reason), and GNOME + X11 is supported, what steps can I take to try to figure out what GNOME with X11 crashes my system or runs out of memory sometimes? I have 16GB of RAM and GNOME complains that it is using more than 1GB of RAM. What applications do I have open? GNOME Terminal with 5 windows and a single open tab to a news site on Chromium.
<kali_user>
None of that takes 16GB of RAM!
<kali_user>
I would assert that Wayland is not yet supported on Kali Linux officially, so I feel that troubleshooting the GNOME + X11 environment would be best for me.
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<vyivel>
you'll probably have more success asking this in some gnome matrix room
<kali_user>
What steps do either of you recommend for me to try to work through that issue?
<kali_user>
ah ok
<kekekeks>
Support for X11 in GNOME is deprecated and will be removed in GNOME 49, you aren't likely to get fixes for your problem
<vyivel>
oh huh i expected it to last for a bit more
<kali_user>
can you tell me the exact name of the gnome matrix room? It is here on oftc?
<kekekeks>
Well, key-repeat thingy is managed by Wayland compositors now, so it doesn't matter if XWayland stays for more time
<kali_user>
What is XWayland? You mean XOrg?
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<dcz_>
XWayland handles X11 inside a Wayland compositor for compatibility purposes
<kali_user>
I am not able to get into the matrix web app, I cannot get to the channel.
<kali_user>
Is there an IRC channel for gnome support?
<kali_user>
I have never needed help with GNOME or any of the GUI's on Linux before, but gosh, it is really difficult to get to the right team to get help!
<kali_user>
I was on the GNOME forum that is where I got told to use this Wayland junk!
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<ofourdan>
please note that stating that Wayland is junk on a Wayland channel is quite unlikely to bring you any sympathy from the people who might be able to help here…
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<MrCooper>
indeed, they left 30 minutes earlier though
<ofourdan>
hehe, I filter the join/leave messages in my irc client :)
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<Ermine>
Kali still runs GUI apps as root? No wonder it doesn't support wayland
<kekekeks>
I kinda don't get what prevents an app running as root from connecting to an arbitrary UNIX socket. Why is there such a restriction?
<vyivel>
nothing
<vyivel>
sudo -E gtk4-demo-application works
<Ermine>
you'd need to know location of that socket, and in wayland case it's in XDG_RUNTIME_DIR usually
<Ermine>
also they would need to locate session bus. So, some apps have messed up theming, some don't work at all (e.g. yast under sway)
<kekekeks>
Probably better to specify an absolute path, running something as root while having your user profile dirs in env is a path to breaking said env
<kekekeks>
i.e. dbus session is usually an absolute e.g. DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS=unix:path=/run/user/1000/bus
<Ermine>
better yet, don't run as root and use polkit or helpers for privileged actions
<Ermine>
btw kde apps just refuse to run as root
<kekekeks>
Different distros (or even distro versions) have different ideas about what a "privileged" action is
<Ermine>
That's policy
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<kennylevinsen>
running a DE as root is dumb, but there's nothing in Wayland that would interfere - root can have an XDG_RUNTIME_DIR like any other user for example
<kennylevinsen>
if certain apps refuse to run as root that would also be the case for X11
<kennylevinsen>
at least in sway the historical refusal to run as root was collateral damage due to a SUID mode of operation, nowadays it shouldn't care
<pq>
MrCooper, I think I asked "VCGT in which hw LUT", but I don't recall the answer. Maybe it was just a statement. I guess the reply is "the same one it has always been".
<pq>
MrCooper, more usefully, I suspect it should be the very last one possible towards the connector.
<zamundaaa[m]>
pq: the actual answer is "the same one that was used when creating the profile"
<zamundaaa[m]>
DisplayCal first configures the VCGT, and then profiles with it set, so the profile is built around that exact application of the VCGT
<zzag>
"Non-user-inconveniencing privacy and security behavior against screenshot attacks and similar security-hole-based data leaks" reads like something that an LLM would write
<pq>
zamundaaa[m], of course, but who would know which one was used.
<kennylevinsen>
zzag: the content is also bogus (and HTML)
<pq>
zamundaaa[m], so it's for compositors to make the decision first, and then assume people make new profiles.
<zamundaaa[m]>
pq: indeed
<pq>
zamundaaa[m], one reason for VCGT I heard was to fine-tune the signal level, when framebuffer has less depth than the signal.
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<marex>
Hi, I'm trying to test weston pipewire-backend , but I just cannot figure out how to get it working (the documentation seems to be entirely missing)
<marex>
I tried ... /usr/bin/weston -B drm,pipewire --modules=systemd-notify.so,screen-share.so --drm-device=card2 ... I assuem that should start it up
<marex>
I also added [output] name=pipewire same-as=LVDS-1 into weston.ini (LVDS-1 is the other output which does work)
<marex>
but ... now what ... gst-launch-1.0 pipewiresrc target-object=weston.pipewire ! video/x-raw ! fakesink
<marex>
that ^ gstreamer invocation hangs in paused state and that's the end of it
<marex>
am I missing something obvious ?
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<pH5>
marex: try mirror-of, same-as (now clone-of) is for drm outputs only. if the pipewire output is right of lvds-1 it probably doesn
<pH5>
t get any updates
<pH5>
or try moving an animated window out over the right edge of lvds-1
<marex>
pH5: turns out I had to restart WP user session , which ... surprised me ... then it connected the weston PW output to gstreamer pipewiresrc ...
<marex>
pH5: thanks though
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