02:28 <kode54> https://mas.to/@markwyner/114136898936177266 :D

06:13 <Consolatis> it is very much off-topic but as the link was posted already: American society is weird: original argument (from march) is "small gov == efficient == our goal as well" (which you can agree with or not, doesn't matter at all). 3 months later that analogy is turned into "gitlab == supporting fascists" and next thing is "freedesktop.org using a product of - and thus advertising for - a company which supports fascists" followed by "hosting your pr

06:13 <Consolatis> oject at gitlab.fd.o means supporting fascists". All of this is nonsense, from start to finish.

07:07 <karolherbst> it's a dog whistle for cutting programs that marginalized and people in need are relying on, so defending that always looks bad to people who know those things work. And people are rightfully upset. I'm not a fan on picking on the precise words used there, but people being angry that the CEO of a widely used project in the FOSS world argues for

07:07 <karolherbst> cutting programs (that's what "small gov" means) that people rely on to get medication and might otherwise die, is something I can get behind. Anyway, no point in further discussing it, because nothing good will come out of it. Just wanted to give you some more information in case you don't know about those details.

11:16 <kode54> yea, sorry, I wasn't expecting anything like "drop gitlab", I mean, it's already not like fdo didn't invest significant effort in this setup

11:19 <kode54> it's basically rock and hard place material

11:27 <karolherbst> at least we don't pay gitlab, nor do they provide anything to us. I think today we _might_ have made a different decision, but the serious investment into CI isn't easily replaced, so not much we can do with it short term anyway

11:29 <pinchartl> they provide gitlab :-)

11:29 <pinchartl> but agreed, no change would be possible short term

11:29 <karolherbst> I mean.. hosted gitlab 🙃

11:30 <karolherbst> or grant us a free license for the enterprise version

11:30 <pinchartl> and the situation would need to be investigated properly, to see if it was an unfortunate comment or an official company position

11:30 <pinchartl> (I assume it's something in-between, as always)

11:31 <karolherbst> well.. it's just a neo-liberal take

11:31 <karolherbst> "efficient goverment", "reduce public spending", that sort of stuff

11:31 <karolherbst> it's pretty normal to say that if you are rich and a CEO

11:32 <karolherbst> for most people this sounds completely harmless, but if you know what it means, it doesn't

11:33 <karolherbst> but it's just a "difference in ideology" and how the show should be run, that sort of stuff

11:35 <karolherbst> the issue is more what message it transports to the people who rely on institutions functioning properly, because they know what it means if they get budget cuts, so people will be upset, especially if they are in FOSS, that one says it in the context of DOGE just makes it a bit worse

11:37 <kode54> I mean, look at what the gumroad guy said

11:37 <kode54> he seriously thought there was waste to eliminate

11:38 <karolherbst> yeah.. not saying they say those things out of malice, they just don't know any better

11:38 <kode54> or that he would be doing any such thing

11:38 <kode54> indeed

11:38 <karolherbst> "make it more efficient" always sounds nice on paper

11:38 <karolherbst> but they are out of touch with the people who are actually impacted

11:39 <kode54> he was genuinely surprised that the organization he was sent to dismantle was already pretty efficient

11:40 <karolherbst> yeah.. being underfunded does those things to an org 🙃

11:40 <kode54> basically drinking the kool aid from those screaming about government waste

11:40 <karolherbst> yeah

11:41 <kode54> but yeah, I know fdo makes incredibly heavy use of the CI functionality

11:41 <karolherbst> anyway, point is, people are rightfully concerned/worried/angry and I wouldn't complain about the chose of words, because people understand what's meant there

11:41 <karolherbst> or well.. most do

11:42 <karolherbst> maybe..

11:42 <karolherbst> but yeah... moving to forgejo was sometimes discussed, but "gitlab CI" is kinda a big argument there

11:43 <karolherbst> maybe if somebody is motivated enough, could discuss/implement the bits and pieces we'd need

11:44 <kode54> would end up being a longer downtime than that last upgrade

11:45 <karolherbst> well not really

11:45 <karolherbst> you don't have to migrate everything at once

11:45 <karolherbst> so projects can move one by one

11:45 <kode54> true

11:45 <kode54> but the old infra has to be up for the duration

11:45 <karolherbst> sure

11:46 <kode54> hey, bit of something for you to chew on:

11:46 <karolherbst> the more interesting part will be how to deal with the CI runners

11:46 <karolherbst> can they be used by both? Do we just yolo it?

11:46 <kode54> someone I hold in high regard for being well informed, just asked why the clover package was deleted from arch 🙃

11:46 <karolherbst> anyway... the issue is more that somebody needs to put in the work to figure it all out

11:47 <karolherbst> kode54: happens to the best of us

11:47 <karolherbst> though tbf.. I should submit a CTS run for AMD hardware...

11:48 <kode54> they also are in the top chart of wiki editors for long running daily edit spree

11:48 <kode54> literally years of editing at least an article a day

11:53 <kode54> karolherbst: can I dm something minor? I don't intend to go on at length

11:54 <karolherbst> sure

13:08 <mupuf> exposing DUTs on more than one instance of gitlab (or another forge) is not well supported by any bare metal farm for now. ci-tron has plans to address it, but it is not fine yet

13:09 <mupuf> as for gitlab ci, there is nothing else like it as far as I know

13:10 <mupuf> and we feel often limited by it, can't imagine how bad the others would be, especially github 🤣

13:30 <karolherbst> isn't github just doing whatever

13:30 <karolherbst> but I also don't know what's the special thing.. the job graph?

19:44 <sergi> Hi Mesa Developers! The Collabora's farm is back online

21:21 <emersion> karolherbst: the IPv6 should be properly fixed now

21:21 <emersion> IPv6 issue*

21:28 <karolherbst> yeah, looks like it works now