ChanServ changed the topic of #freedesktop to: https://www.freedesktop.org infrastructure and online services || for questions about freedesktop.org projects, please see each project's contact || for discussions about specifications, please use https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xdg or xdg@lists.freedesktop.org
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<jrayhawk>
It appears to be coming from all over the world, including consumer ISPs.
<jrayhawk>
Might be a game dependency in the XBox app. Weird to trust direct downloads for that.
<kode54>
weird
<kode54>
or maybe some proton flavor does this
<jrayhawk>
Does SPI have a relationship with a CDN we can redirect this to? e.g. Debian and Fastly
<slomo>
could make it fail if that UA is used, and then let's see who complains? :)
<jrayhawk>
My inclination is to *not* dramatically alienate our downstream vendors and users. Looks like https://www.fastly.com/fast-forward is a reasonable approach. Is that the sort of thing I should do through the board?
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<karolherbst>
jrayhawk: block it and see who complains? 🙃
<karolherbst>
ohh was already suggested
<Mithrandir>
jrayhawk: fastly are good folks and happy to support free software, so I imagine getting them to give us CDN capacity is a breeze.
<karolherbst>
we already use fastly for stuff, no?
<Mithrandir>
if so, it's just a matter of wrapping the gstreamer url, I suppose.
<karolherbst>
might be on a different server and stuff..
<karolherbst>
so yeah, maybe chat with bentiss about that
<bentiss>
jrayhawk: I would think Fastly should be OK with that because it's freedesktop.org in the end. Need confirmation with daniels and/or the Fastly people. How much data are we talking about?
<karolherbst>
But given it's for Microsoft-Delivery-Optimization I'd honestly just block it....
<karolherbst>
unless we want to be used as a storage provider by rando app developers that think it's funny
<bentiss>
karolherbst: Fastly provide DDoS mitigation as well, so it's still interesting to put such data servers behind a CDN
<karolherbst>
yeah, but like it's not users downloading it actively, it's app developers that listed us as a storage to deploy parts of their application
<karolherbst>
should they set up their own servers (which they probably already have to, but Microsoft-Delivery-Optimization is for load balancing kinda)
<jrayhawk>
Eh, as long as we can find a nearly-free way to serve that need, we may as well.
<jrayhawk>
Intel corporate also added a build system that's repeatedly downloading the same assets over and over lately.
<karolherbst>
right.. if fastly is fine with this, then I won't mind, still I wouldn't want to encourage app devs to get away with this and keep doing it, because I can see this keep happening
<karolherbst>
yeah but intel also pay mesa devs
<karolherbst>
*pays
<bentiss>
karolherbst: I don't really see the point. The target of the link here is the gstreamer install exe, so it seems legit
<karolherbst>
it's the Microsoft-Delivery-Optimization part
<karolherbst>
it's a system to fetch from alternative sources if your own servers are overloaded, or if you don't want to pay for cloud storage
<karolherbst>
at least devs that do that should ask before doing that
<bentiss>
we can always do both: enable CDN and block/filter such requests :)
<karolherbst>
might also be a legitimate FOSS app that does it through the windows store or something, but still...
<karolherbst>
but yeah.. as long as it's not an issue for fastly, then I won't mind, but if we ever run into bandwidth constraints that would be one of the first thing I'd block probably...
<jrayhawk>
Blocking a UA that's specificlaly trying to be better behaved about cached retrieval than standard agents seems like an odd approach to life
<bentiss>
karolherbst, jrayhawk: to give you an idea, the current 7 days bandwidth total on Fastly for what we serve is 16.81 TB. But that exe is 834 MB, so that will probably explode the numbers
<karolherbst>
sooo 834 MB * 66469 = 52TB?
<jrayhawk>
OTOH, it'll still be orders of magnitude less than Debian
<karolherbst>
uhm..
<karolherbst>
*3 * 7 I guess
<karolherbst>
so 1110TB for that file alone if we get 66469 requests per 8 hours?
<jrayhawk>
Looking at it closer, it's the requests are chunked
<karolherbst>
ahh
<karolherbst>
yeah that kinda makes sense given the tech has p2p caps as well
<__tim>
This has never happened with any of the previous versions?
<__tim>
(or might it just not have been noticed because no one was looking?)
<karolherbst>
well you need to register the URL, no?
<jrayhawk>
Looks like it's more like 32gb for the past 8 hours
<karolherbst>
mhh
<karolherbst>
that's 0.672 TB per 7 days
<karolherbst>
not that much but also not nothing, at least something to keep an eye out for
<karolherbst>
jrayhawk: I wonder if you could give stats on how much data is served to Microsoft-Delivery-Optimization clients in total?
<karolherbst>
ohh right.. ED25519 login via SSH is broken atm?
<karolherbst>
ehh wait.. it's just ssh-add being broken
<jrayhawk>
__tim: It's been going on for a while, but it jumped an order of magnitude today.
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<karolherbst>
I wonder if somebody could tell us who is requesting it
<karolherbst>
or what
<karolherbst>
like could microsoft tell us what's the reason for the downloads?
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<DragoonAethis>
Delivery Optimization is basically Windows Update: Torrent Edition
<DragoonAethis>
It's mostly for P2P updates
<karolherbst>
yeah, but apps in the windows store can also make use of it and such
<karolherbst>
like people should stop externalizing their business costs to innocent FOSS projects 🙃
<DragoonAethis>
Eh, the idea is neat for internal networks, less so when you accidentally end up serving as a CDN from your infra
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<DragoonAethis>
Either way stop and disable DoSvc on the Windows hosts and it's all good
<__tim>
Is there anything in the headers that would give a hint as to what app is involved?
<DragoonAethis>
Ohhh, I just read the backlog and now I get the context, sorry
<daniels>
jrayhawk: what is it that Intel is repeatedly fetching?
<karolherbst>
but that's also only gstreamer.. though not sure if we have other projects shipping exe files or installers like this..
<__tim>
if it's a problem problem we could put that one file into the package registry for now and add a temporary redirect to .htaccess
<__tim>
if you don't want to block the agent
<__tim>
(as a temporary "fix")
<__tim>
(I want to move our packages away from annarchy anyway, but still have to figure out some of the details)
<jrayhawk>
I am fine with just shoving gstreamer.freedesktop.org behind fastly so long as Fastly doesn't start javascript-challenging non-Mozilla UAs. It's all static rarely-mutable assets.
<DragoonAethis>
Yocto have double slashes that are also in the logs
<DragoonAethis>
So finding the team responsible for these bulk downloads at Intel is going to be hard
<jrayhawk>
Yeah, I bring it up as an illustration that heavy use of release assets is hardly unique enough to chase down on an individual basis and it's long past time to solve the whole class of problem via mirrors/CDNs.
<jrayhawk>
bentiss: Let me know what the call is on if you're willing to handle this and if there's anything else I can do to help.
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<bentiss>
jrayhawk: if daniels is OK we can give you admin rights on fastly, and then we can work on the deployment together. I'll be AFK for the next 3 hours unfortunately
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<daniels>
I'm ok with it but I'm also like 99% sure the fastly admin UI isn't going to work on lynx
<Mithrandir>
they have an API, though.
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<__tim>
I'm not sure if we (gstreamer) is particularly bothered about lynx/w3m tbh, as long as package/source tarball downloads still work for wget/curl etc.
<__tim>
(The current goaway stuff breaks our documentation in actual browsers)
<__tim>
(so we wouldn't be sad if that went away when the site is put behind fastly :))
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<jrayhawk>
Which UA is having issues, there?
<slomo>
probably every, at least chrome and firefox do
<jrayhawk>
Huh, weird. I wonder why the cookie doesn't work, there. I'll disable it on that interface until I work that out.
<jrayhawk>
er, on that namespace, rather
<jrayhawk>
__tim: Yeah, that was my concern. I've seen fastly javascript-challenge curl on Debian's infrastructure, but I haven't seen the admin interface and don't know how much control there is over that.
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<__tim>
I haven't seen any problems downloading source tarballs from https://libnice.freedesktop.org/ which is also behind fastly, so think it's probably not a problem if configured right
<__tim>
(if we were talking about wget/curl etc)
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