<chirs241097>
Don't know if this is the correct place for this, but is there any interest in adding proper support for PWM brightness adjustment for older Intel laptops with an OLED panel (e.g. ThinkPad X1 yoga 1st gen)? I've recently got a reverse engineered prototype working.
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<jamfrompearls>
it's Europes fault, that abortion leftovers like Ryan Houdek, aids carriers like Dave Airlie and other steroid munchers like Doug Freed are still humans, and they go against the low to harvest subtsances from victims like me. It's nothing to do with Russians and their beliefs, if such hospitals are in fact violating laws, they also should be attacked. So will you be under heavy
<jamfrompearls>
shelling. The real theory should be, you do not do bread from shit, where that shit is you not me very clearly said, cause your protein folding folks were harvesting substances from me, when i was under ten years of age.
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<cheako>
chirs241097: Try asking in #intel-gfx
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<tomba>
Could a maintainer check "[PATCH v12 0/5] drm/atomic-helper: Re-order CRTC and Bridge ops" (https://lore.kernel.org/all/20250406131642.171240-1-aradhya.bhatia%40linux.dev/ )? It's blocking two other serieses. I've been testing it a lot, but just on a few platforms... I would be nice to merge the series early in the cycle.
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<cheako>
Does anyone have tips for using multiple versions of an icd? I don't think I'd want the json in `/home/cheako/.local/share/vulkan/icd.d`, because I don't want to chance it loading when it's not supposed to? I feel like I'd want to use `/home/cheako/.local/share/vulkan-git/icd.d/intel_icd.x86_64.json`, and then set `VK_ICD_FILENAMES` to something like
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<cheako>
When I first ran oblivion it spent like 30min building shaders, but now even though I changed driver(from rc1 to main and back) it doesn't seem to mind.
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<cheako>
Is it a bug if that shader building(for oblivion) happens on a single thread? Because as I watched the progress bar, I obviously checked with gkrellm and top.
<HdkR>
cheako: Shader compilation behaviour is up to the application to decide if it is threaded or not.
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<HdkR>
Monster hunter wilds as an example will thread shader/pso compilation up to five threads maximum, and that's their choice.
<cheako>
HdkR: Is there a list of vulkan calls that can block?
<cheako>
I've never seen any notes in the API docks of, you should call this in parallel.
<HdkR>
Probably anything with vkCreate*Pipeline* or whatever
<cheako>
What's the purpose of the docks, if at the end of the day you are still guessing?
<HdkR>
Because technically I think any API call can block.
<HdkR>
When you're creating pipelines you're just expecting the driver to be doing real work.
<cheako>
I don't think it's be wise to run, for example, `vkAllocateDescriptorSets` from several threads... that call will normally return right away.
<HdkR>
We're not in the world with KHR_parallel_shader_compile doing magic behind our backs anymore. Applications are expected to be smarter :)
<cheako>
probably/expecting? We app devs need to "know"
<HdkR>
Oh, I didn't realize you're an Oblivion developer. You should probably compile pipelines on multiple threads then.
<HdkR>
The driver won't do it for you.
<cheako>
If a call can to take a few seconds, but none of the other calls do... that's important to have documented.
<cheako>
That's the no truce scotts man falacy.
<cheako>
Like there are more app devs than just the guys who work on AAA games.
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<cheako>
The choice to have vkCreate*Pipeline* block seems arbitrary from my PoV and if AAA games are under the same understanding that this should not block... guess who is correct.
<Sachiel>
how would you know the pipeline is usable if it doesn't block? Callbacks everywhere?
<psykose>
what's the difference between when an application is compiling shaders itself and when steam is doing it(?) on all threads automatically before launch
<HdkR>
KHR_parallel_shader_compile behaviour, just hitch as soon as the shader/pso is attempted to be used.
<HdkR>
:)
<DemiMarie>
What would be useful, IMO, is a way to compile all shaders at install time, returning a binary that can be passed to the driver later.
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<Sachiel>
and then have to recompile them all again when the driver gets updated and invalidates the cache
<HdkR>
psykose: fossilize knows how to thread correctly, but can only hit shaders that are living in the cache already. Game update or games that programmatically generate shaders negate it a bit.
<psykose>
hmm
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<cheako>
psykose: I had a question about that as well. But it's more of a how does steam work question. My launch options set's ICD_FILES, so does steam use the correct driver to build the shaders?
<psykose>
does it do something special to put them in the cache? it works even for freshly installed games
<HdkR>
psykose: Steam scrapes the caches from mesa and can distribute them to people
<psykose>
ahhh
<psykose>
so the shaderdb thing is a huge precache of stuff the game outputs, reuploaded for others
<psykose>
that makes so much sense
<HdkR>
It works great especially if you have a high core count system.
<cheako>
Sachiel: It's my dunnkruger kicking in... I'm just looking at the docs and wondering how I'd know when to call clone.
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<cwabbott>
you can't really learn vulkan just from the specification
<cheako>
If I go by what testing shows, that's relying on undefined behavior.
<cwabbott>
it's of course important, but there are so so many things where the spec is written a certain way for a particular reason and there's no context behind those design decisions in a specification
<cwabbott>
there's now an official vulkan guide at https://docs.vulkan.org/guide/latest/ which is supposed to complement the spec, plus all the tutorials/blog posts/etc. out there
<HdkR>
Do like some games do, create and teardown 720 threads/second, surely that'll be fine for performance :)
<cheako>
Yes, that resource addresses my assumptions. But changes the answer of will this call block to "it depends" and that's not great, do apps really send off a watcher thread looking for vk calls to block?
<cwabbott>
every single vulkan call "blocks"
<cwabbott>
the driver never ever creates a thread behind the app's back
<cwabbott>
there is one exception for queue submission, but you don't have to worry about that as queue submission is obvious asynchronous anyway
<cwabbott>
that was an explicit design goal since vulkan 1.0 and I believe communicated at the time - when we say vulkan is "explicit" that's one of the key parts of it
<cwabbott>
that in turn was guided by developer's frustrations with non-blocking calls in GL
<cheako>
Thanks for putting up with me, I'm a better dev now.
<cheako>
google `"https://docs.vulkan.org/guide" -site:https://docs.vulkan.org` There is no way to find the document without talking to someone.
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<psykose>
-site: excludes a site, what did you expect that to do
<cheako>
Search the internet for ANYTHING discussing this link. I excluded it's self to avoid the obvious circular logic, of finding something only being possible after you've found it.
<psykose>
i've found this guide (and others) multiple times before just by looking for 'vulkan guide', nobody led me to it
<cheako>
Right, that's circular... how did you learn that there was a guide to search for?
<psykose>
searching `foo guide` is inherent to learning things for me in general, i do that for most things
<psykose>
how do others find things? where would you expect to see it mentioned?
<cheako>
I searched for `vulkan tutorial`, perhaps b4 that guide existed. I wouldn't count on ppl finding things by walking a thesaurus.
<cwabbott>
searching "vulkan tutorial" takes me to https://www.vulkan.org/learn which has the official tutorial and guide linked
<psykose>
are you saying it should be the first direct result on google for `vulkan tutorial/guide/etc`? or that people should be discussing it around the internet? i'm not sure i understand
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<cheako>
I learned from https://vulkan-tutorial.com/ and yeah that was long time ago. Still that sire isn't getting much SEO if there are no other sites linking to it.
<cheako>
ohh, sorry I've autism so am more confusing than a LLM.
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